It never fails to shock me how a tip is demanded in the US. People simply refuse to listen to reason when we (yes, there are others!) tell them that leaving a tip isn’t necessary. Well, I’m hoping for too much here, but if you’re a waiter, here are 5 reasons why I will try my best not to give any money to you and why the reasons for tipping are crappy.
1. You act as if you’re my best friend
Just leave me alone ok? I don’t want to bloody chit chat with you. I want food. FOOD! Get it? It’s a restaurant. I go there to eat. I go because I want either Italian food, Chinese Food or something else which I can’t get in a McDonald’s. So I come to a restaurant to fulfill my cravings for it. I will pay for what I value – food. Not you.
Christ, you offend me – kneeling down next to my table, pretending to like me and chatting as if you’re my best friend when it’s obvious that all you’re after is the tip! I’m not a bloody money bag you know. I will pay the bill which includes the cost of the food, the environment and the salaries of the people involved – nothing more.
The only way to get money out of me that I don’t have to legally pay is by prying it out of my cold dead hands…
Bottom line: I don’t want to know your name, or interact with you for any longer than I have to in order to place my order. As far as I’m concerned, you’re the equivalent of a conveyor belt that brings me my food and a computer into which I input my order. Of course, I won’t be rude. But don’t expect me to interact with you any more than I would with some stranger.
Image Credit: cafemama
2. You don’t get paid enough
And this is my problem how exactly? It’s astonishing that customers are expected to make up for your employer’s cheapness in not paying you a decent wage. Please include the full cost in everyone’s bill thank you very much. I’ll pay it because I have to and the charge is there for me to see.
What’s really funny here is that no one seems to criticize the employers! All criticism is reserved for non tipping customers instead of the owners of the restaurant for not paying a decent wage. Wtf! Could it possibly be because you guys know you can make much more by tips and under report your income to the IRS?
3. You’ll spit in my food if I don’t tip you?
And I’ll shoot your kid if you don’t give me a million dollars. Seriously, am I even hearing this right? You’re actually using the threat of blackmail to make me pay you? Well as long as you’re openly claiming to be a criminal it’s all right I guess.
Fortunately that’s why I prefer buffets. Listen apart from it being illegal, this shows your poor integrity. But if you spit in someone’s food because they didn’t give you money you didn’t earn, then you’re a loser and deserve to be a waiter for the rest of your life.
4. Bringing me my food isn’t worthy of being paid extra
Did you cook it? Did you invent it? No. You picked it up and brought it to me. While it might not be easy, there are plenty of jobs which are much worse – shop floor workers for example. And I’ve been a shop floor manager, so I know. Face it – compared to other jobs, being a waiter is unskilled. You get paid what the market will think your services are worth. You don’t deserve more for your work over and above what your employer should pay you.
5. Money doesn’t grow on trees
I expect you to be grateful and pray for me at night if I tip you 10%. Be happy I gave you anything at all. I worked for the money in my wallet and by giving you some I didn’t have to, I’m doing you a favor. Learn to remember that when people give you something they don’t need to, it’s a favor. You don’t complain that they didn’t give you more!
By the way, the same thing above applies to all professions that demand tips including those on cruise liners.
So now that you understand why I won’t give you money you don’t deserve, stop with the “oh how could you?” attitude. I can. And I will.
Update: Here’s a rebuttal of the many silly justifications for tipping that people have given in the comments section.
If you don’t like how things are run at restaurants, go eat at McDonalds :\
My responses…
1) A good server is going to make your dining experience a personal one. Any bum can deliver your food and refill your drinks. A good server is going to make you feel comfortable and make sure you’re taken care of properly.
2) Again, if you don’t like this..DON’T GO OUT TO EAT. You know the reason restaurants don’t pay their servers full wage and why they live off of tips? To make it cheaper for you. If a restaurant paid their servers full wage, it’d cost a restaurant an average of 500-2000 dollars a day (maybe more..I’m just calculating for my place of work). If they continued to serve your 15 buck entree at it’s same price? Restaurants wouldn’t make a profit. They would make up for that cost by upping the price of your meal…and then you really wouldn’t be able to go out to eat. So, what hurts more? Leaving 5 extra bucks with your meal, or paying double or more what that meal costs?
3) OMG NO SERVER ACTUALLY DOES THIS. It’s a fucking hyped up myth hollywood made up. No server is gonna risk their job over one asshole. And how the fuck is your server gonna spit in your food after you’ve already eaten? Checks are delivered at the end of the meal. We don’t know what you tip usually until after you have left. Way to use logic, Mister Man.
4) Yeah, if serving was that simply, then no one would deserve a tip. But what you’re describing is fast food, where they do get paid normal wages. If you think all serving is is bringing someone food, then you’ve obviously never had a serving job. I’ve been a shop floor worker. That’s what I was for many years before switching to a waitress. Believe me, serving is ten times harder. Luckily, minus assholes like this guy, I get paid what I actually work.
5) No one is gonna be happy with a 10% tip. If you spend 100 dollars at my restaurant, I have to tip out 3 dollars to the hostesses, table tenders, and etc. So, I’m gonna get 7 dollars out of the 10 you tipped. That’s less than half of what I should get. I know the author of this article is unsympathetic to such things, but you’re screwing me out of MY wage. I’m working hard for my money too. If you don’t believe that, PLEASE step into the shoes of a server for a month. While, yes, tips are something you’re supposed to earn and aren’t some magical gift that customers are supposed to be entitled to give you, don’t pretend you’re not being cheap by not leaving one.
Again, if you don’t like how the system works..then don’t invest in the system. Don’t eat at restaurants. If you’re so keen on saving your “hard earned money,” don’t go out to eat. You’ll save money by going out and eating fast food…or better yet…you’ll save even more money by staying at home with your piss poor attitude and cooking and serving your own damn food.
Thanks.
In reply to Shannon
Any bum can deliver your food and refill your drinks.
I’ll stick with the bum then, thanks!
In reply to Shannon
Shannon
it seems that you are continuing the trend of “emotion grabbing.” If i want a particular type of food, then as a free American, I will in fact patronize a restaurant. As a free American, I’m not legally obligated to provide anything else EXCEPT what is clearly written on the bill. Ken, see above, agrees himself!!! The humanistic perspective is different, however as a consumer in a free market society, humanism comes secondary. Although you may disagree about the “Visine” issue, it seems the previous post indicates that many people perform such feats that may disgust the common person. This, again, is similar to Terrorism. For example, what if a family goes out to dinner and FORGETS to tip. The family brings their five year old daughter. Because the wait staff is SO ENTITLED to every PENNY (apparently only THEY work hard and NO ONE ELSE does), the waiter puts Visine in the next batch of food for the family. The five year old girl eats the food contaminated with the Visine. She gets EXTREME food poisoning due to her age and DIES!!!!! This, my friends, is an act of Murder and Terror which, according to previous posts, IS SUPPORTED BY WAIT STAFF!!!! This is criminal, fiendish, and yes this is something a Terrorist would do, leading to the death of a child.
now let me ask you, are wait staff the ONLY workers in America that deserve tips? Why not me? I work hard, and I get paid lower than I should. How come you guys don’t tip me? I work in the healthcare industry and, using your logic, I deserve a 30% tip because sometimes my money is left to driving around and making sure patients are OK. Why do YOU only get to receive tips? Low wage? Do you know where FOOD comes from? What about those people? What about the fruit and vegetable pickers that get paid maybe $1/hour? Do they complain?
Please don’t complain to the very consumers. Complain to your employers. They should be paying you what you deserve. You agreed to the wages, so do not take it out on the CONSUMER. It seems that none of you have attended business training. The CUSTOMER is always right, no matter what.
BTW food prices already are marked up. In a free market society, you try to out-compete your competition by ways of pricing, quality, etc. If everyone is paid fairly, the market would level out. Everyone would be happier this way. Again, this is why minimum wage doesn’t work. You are depriving a whole sector of wages that could potentially provide better competition. Who is to say that certain people have no problem accepting $5/hr without tips? You, Shannon? Do you dictate what is fair and what isnt? I make over $50,000 and I don’t think thats fair, but to some people thats great. ITS ARBITRARY!!!! Why are you complaining to me the customer about your wages? Boycott, unionize, protest or QUIT the job!!!
tHE “SYSTEM” Is what the legal precedents are. I pay what is on the receipt. THat is it. I am not legally obliged to pay anything except what is on the bill. The “system” you are arguing is not required. It is arbitrary. As a free American, I can pay whatever I want if I decide to pay extra. I don’t live in some dictatorship where I HAVE to go against my liberty.
So far, the only insigtful information from wait staff on this board has been from Ken. He plainly puts it out why tipping is a good thing. Thank you.
In reply to Common Sense
Nah, I’m good. You’re the one obviously misinformed and taking advantage of the system. You’re a cheap ass. Just admit it and stop blaming the system! Just because assholes like you don’t tip me doesn’t mean I still don’t earn what I work for!
You guys clearly haven’t worked in the restaraunt industry, go and work as server one day and then come and talk to me. Oh and if you don’t want to tip stay home and cook its CHEAPER simple as that!!! I never understood cheap ass people that go out and eat and have money for dessert, app, and dont have money to tip, stay at home!! Because while you are enjoying the food we spit on, we are laughing ;)!!!!!!!
Oh and one more thing to bag of shit or bad wad whatever it is, go back to your country because you clearly dont belong here!!! Thank you come again:)
In reply to Angela
It seems that racism and stupidity is alive and well, eh Angela? Now why is the restaurant industry any harder than the health care industry? Or the military? Do you tip your service-men? What about the low end health care workers? what about the EMTS that are there to save your life that make minimum wage? Are you telling me that EVERY OTHER INDUSTRY BESIDES THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY DOES NOT WORK HARD WHILE ONLY THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY WORKS HARD? It seems that all of you restaraunt workers spit on food. Again, you all seem like a bunch of Terrorists for performing such horrendous feats. You are criminals as far as I’m concerned and if all wait staff have this mentality (but again, Ken does not), then you don’t deserve tips. It is cheaper to cook at home, yes, but at the same time, why is restaraunt food marked up as it is? IS YOUR employer pocket ALL of the profits? Seems like you should perhaps take it up with your employer rather than complain to the very customers that actually PAY YOU!!!!
BTW I’m American, born and raised and no I don’t like tipping. In America, I have the freedom to think freely. I also live in a free market society, so I only pay what is billed to me, that is it.
BTW Angela, who made you so superior compared to other races? Did you? Are you now stating that you are some sort of chosen, superior race over the rest of us?
I’m going to reword your sentence to my liking –“i never understood (i will not swear unlike some people) service people that can just accept whatever tip they receive and be content. I am not legally required to do so. If you went to a doctor and needed some sort of blood test, I probably saw your blood somewhere along the line to make sure you got the appropriate testing you deserved. I don’t get paid much. Where’s my tip? I work hard AND i’ve got a grad degree, but as far as I’m concerned I don’t get paid much (hey you wanna argue arbitrary, i’ll give you arbitrary). So why can’t you tip me 15% of your medical bill? Don’t bring up the minimum wage argument . You agreed with your employer to a certain wage, as did all other Americans. Are you more entitled than the rest of the millions of Americans that receive lower than average pay yet don’t complain? what about the farm workers that get maybe $2/hr? You tell bhagwad to go back to his country, I tell you to go back to school and get some common sense. Sorry to put it so rudely, but it seems that is what is required to make a point here.
Lol common sense get some!!! I dont have the time of the day to argue with you clearly you do, in spanish we have a saying “para un baboso a otrO” google it! I dont care what your argument is, just STAY HOME AND COOK end of discussion, you save yourself from eating food that’s been spit on and from tipping!!:) thank you come again!
And I dont care if your american, indian whatever you should know better!!! It just baffles me that we are having an argument about tipping, get some common sense, thats the way it works papasito!
In reply to Angela
Clearly the fact that I’ve not tipped several waiters in my life means that not “the way it works”.
As the customer, I get to decide how it works. Capiche? Your lifestyle depends on my goodwill. And you don’t have it.
Hay papasito that’s the way it works Im srry to say lol!!! You might Be that one table out of the hundreds i get that i know isnt going to tip because I see cheap written all over your face so I will give you crappy service simple as that capiche ;) meaning your food will arrive late, cold and spit on and a smiley face! So just hope you never get me because i dont put up with that shit!! I dont care what youre argument is, thats just how it works!! I will say it over and over again STAY AT HOME AND COOK!!!
In reply to Angela
And how will you know before you give the bill that the customer won’t tip?
In reply to Angela
i hope all your customers “STAY AT HOME AND COOK!!!”
nothing will make me happier then you in an empty restaurant with noones food to spit in.
Maybe then you can look yourself in a mirror and scream “thats just how it works!”
98% of the time I can sense it and im never wrong, first starting with the race, usually when they are Indian I know they will tip 2%, so automatically my service isn’t good, ive tested this and all indians are the same, when I think oh they might be different then the rest nope 2% or less. Just so you know as soon as a hindu walks in the door all the servers fight with the hosts because no one wants them, and whoever gets them doesnt give them good service. So race and the way you look plays a big role on the tipping! Call me racist or a stereotype but its the truth and I can prove it!
In reply to Angela
Thank you for that penetrating insight into your mind.
I hope more Americans learn to not give in to blackmail and refuse to tip. Till then, enjoy your hate and pray that you never get caught and go to jail.
In reply to Angela
98% of the time you are right? So if I asked you 100 times different questions regarding health and wellness issues, you will be correct 98% of the time? Can you gurantee that? That is how you worded your sentencing.
It seems your bigotry and hatred are getting in the way of a real debate here. You are mentioning things such as race and religion in order to state your argument, but this simply makes you look like an intolerant person who does not know anything outside of the Barrio, no offense.
BTW i work in healthcare. If you don’t tip me, how would you feel if you medication arrived late, your blanket cold, and someone decided to spit in your meds? How would you feel if your blood test was INTENTIOANLLY sabotaged because you were rude? How do you think other industries are? You don’t think we all work very hard Mamasita?
BTW where am I legally bound to pay you a tip. It is not legal at all. It is an incentive payment I can give you, but there is no legal precedent. California law–a tip is a voluntary amount left by a patron for an employee. A mandatory service charge is an amount that a patron is required to pay based on a contractual agreement or a specified required service amount listed on the menu of an establishment. An example of a mandatory service charge that is a contractual agreement would be a 10 or 15 percent charge added to the cost of a banquet. Such charges are considered as amounts owed by the patron to the establishment and are not gratuities voluntarily left for the employees. Therefore, when an employer distributes all or part of a service charge to its employees, the distribution may be at the discretion of the employer and the service charge, which would be in the nature of a bonus, would be included in the regular rate of pay when calculating overtime payments.
now restaraunts that do have tipping policies, i applaud them. They leave the frivolity out of the system.
So why can’t i tip 14.3333% or 10.579% or 18.248%–its all arbitrary anyways.
I don’t know if you are old enough to remember, but 10% was a standard tip back in the 80s (in the 70s you’d leave your spare change and that was the tip). 15% came in the 90s. 20% is a new thing. So at the rate we are going, are we goign to pay a 50% tip in 2030? Please don’t use the inflation model. The tip is already adjusted to inflation as the prices on the restaurants menu are adjusted as such. So the menu price at a restaraunt in the 1980s was different than it is now, yet the tipping standard has increased? How does this make any economical sense?
BTW Bhagwad, I need to apologize for my fellow ignorant Americans. I’ve always tried to break the stereotype of the Entitled American, but it seems Angela is holding the stereotype up. We don’t blackmail here in the US, but we take we can receive, taht is it. Entitlement seems rampant in the restaraunt industry unfortunately.
BTW spitting in food? Disregard for human life? As far as I’m concerned Angela, you are either criminally insane or you’re a terrorist. Just cause you didn’t get the extra 3% or whatever, you disregard your fellow human beings and compromise their health. That is true terror as we know it. Terrorist!
In reply to Common Sense
Ah, it’s ok :). I wouldn’t be so stupid as to take any person’s view as representative of people in general.
Apparently the OP doesn’t possess the same maturity. No big deal.
In reply to bhagwad
totally cool. Americans tend to stereotype outside of their homes, which is a bad American stereotype. The entitlement, however, especially among today’s youth is just BAD. I go outside the country and people are content with what they get. Everyone here in the US wanst more more more even if they already have large amounts of whatever they “need.” I think the tipping culture is pretty in line with this.
70s tipping–spare change
80s tipping–10%
90s–15%
2000s–20%
future projections:
i guess 2010s–25%
2020s–30%
2030s–35%
2040s–40%
The rates you see above (which in of themselves are arbitrary numbers) the entitlement is increasing. This makes my country look bad and my people look stupid :(
In reply to Angela
btw Angela, when you say “proof” what do you mean? For example i can provide you specific outbreak information on say West Nile Virus in the United States. How can you proof your racist insinuation? I have Indian friends that tip 20-25% due to humanistic reasons.
Do you possess documentation or data? In science, proof is clearly evident and has been clearly written. Other than that, it is all speculative.
In reply to Angela
And how much do you tip servers?
The reason you’re supposed to tip servers is because the federal government and state governments have determined that serving is a tipping job and they tax servers on a percentage of their net sales. If people don’t tip when they eat out, the servers are being taxed on money they did not receive and are therefore paying for people to eat at their restaraunt (Among many reasons…)
In reply to Denae
then why can’t the government mandate a REQUIRED tip? Why can’t ALL restaraunts enforce a MANDATORY tipping service? I understand the system is not good, but there are a lot of nonsense systems in the US. If the system is so flawed, then why do waiters/waitresses continue to accept such ridiculous wages while working in bad working conditions? Why can’t they unionize, strike, or QUIT the job? Why is no one answering this question? It seems REALLY taboo here for some reason. Obviously the market is dictating that this system works. If tips were so necessary, they would have been made required by the government at some level, right? City, State, Fed etc.
Again, if tips were so necessary, then restaraunts NEED a tipping policy.
I will ask this again, i’m just copying and pasting myself regarding the tipping patterns from the past 40 years.
70s tipping–spare change
80s tipping–10%
90s–15%
2000s–20%
future projections:
i guess 2010s–25%
2020s–30%
2030s–35%
2040s–40%
Doesn’t it all seem arbitrary?
If a tip is not required by law, can’t I then tip whatever I want? Why 15%? Why not 5%? Why not 30%? why not Pi%?
In reply to Denae
o and besides if a waiter does not make minimum wage, they the employer is REQUIRED to compensate. If he does not, the employer can be subject to labor violations.
Please don’t tell me your employer DOESN’T do this. If he doesn’t find another job, because you have a bad employer. I would never cut my own employees from their deserved salaries, otherwise I’d have a bunch of disgruntled workers working half-ass on everything. This is Business school 101.
A server’s tips are their primary compensation, this is why the federal minimum wage for tipped employees is only 2.13 per hour. Giving a patron the option to tip incentivizes the server to provide better service so if the server does an awful job you leave 0-10%, mediocre 15%, good 20% ect… If you do not tip you are gaming the system we have here in America and forcing the server to work for free. Assuming your server has done a good job yet you still don’t tip them you are in effect stealing their labor. While the system may be set up in a way that permits you not to tip, you are taking advantage of it and forcing someone to work for you without being paid, that is morally wrong. Justify your behavior all you want, but when it comes down to it gaming a system that is based on the assumption of your honesty in order to not compensate people who work for you demonstrates a serious lack of integrity on your part.
In reply to Eric Snell
So you’d support unionizing servers and changing the law to at least minimum wage? Because based on some comments from servers above, they wouldn’t want that since they earn far more from tips.
The real scandal is your employers not paying a fair wage, and you call the customers cheap?
In reply to bhagwad
No, I wouldn’t. I have lived and traveled all over the world and would say that in general I receive the best service in the United States, I equate that to the optional gratuity. I have discussed tipping with my European friends and Canadian family many times, none of them like it because they want to know what they are paying upfront and don’t like having sales tax and gratuity sprung on them at the end. Their system may require less brainpower, but when it comes down to it it is their system and not ours and if they believe in compensating people for their labor they need to tip when they are in the United States. Bhagwad, I think the problem is not lack of fair pay, but rather confusion on the part of many regarding the role of a server and what the restaurant is actually paying them for. In most of the world a small tip is sometimes given in addition to an adequate wage in recognition of phenomenal service,, the system in the United States should not even be compared to this. In the United States a server is receiving 2.13 per hour so they are legally an employee of the restaurant, thus the restaurant isn’t breaking the law when they require their employees to wear a uniform, show up for work at a specific time and ask them to perform duties like rolling silverware, stocking plates and cleaning up their section at the end of their shift. The 2.13 per hour a server receives here in the United State is compensation for showing up on time and fulfilling a few basic tasks for the restaurant, their livelihood comes from working for YOU. They are effectively your contract employee while they are serving you, they may not have filled out a 1099 and you may not be submitting a w-9 (patrons tend to find this inconvenient), but that is the true nature of the relationship. When you enter a restaurant in the USA and sit down at a table to be waited on you should see yourself as hiring a contractor, not as having a restaurant employee take care of you. Baghwad, if you believe that a person deserves to be compensated for their labor you are morally obliged to tip your waiters and waitresses. I read that you do not place a high value on the work of your servers, that is your own prerogative, but it does sound like you believe that your server be paid fairly – guess what? you hired them when you sat down – THATS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY! The fact that servers in the rest of the world are paid a fair wage does not make it acceptable for you to jilt the ones here in America who aren’t. Our system relies on the assumption of the restaurant patron’s honesty and generally it works well for servers and patrons alike, occasionally there are people who game the system and leave nothing, but most people have enough respect for the people who work for them to at least give them something even if its only 5 or 10%.
In reply to Eric Snell
You can’t force norms on people like that without their consent. I never agreed to pay the server’s wages. Just because they assume it doesn’t make it so.
Also, I don’t care about “great service”? I just want someone to quietly take my order and bring me food. No chit chat, no extra help…nothing. All that “extra” is just distracting me from my food.
What then? Why should I pay for what I never asked for, and was never billed for?
In reply to bhagwad
Article 23, section 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
I’m not trying to force ‘norms’ on you, if I was doing that I would be insisting that you have to tip a specific amount. What I am saying is that, in the United States, when you sit down at a table there is an unwritten contract that you will leave the server what you feel their labor is worth. I understand that culturally that is not what you are used to, but that is how we do it here. It is our culture to not include the servers pay in the cost of the food, but rather to ask the patron to pay the server what he or she feels the server’s labor is worth after they finish their meal. If you understand that this is how the server makes their income and yet still neglect to leave them anything after they have provided you with the most basic service you are using a cultural system based on trust to deny them what almost every nation in the world considers a fundamental human right. That is inherently wrong no matter where you are from. Where you come from it is the restaurants responsibility to compensate its employees, here it is YOUR responsibility. If you understand the system and tip nothing you are legally stealing from your server.
I should note that I do not work in the hospitality industry.
In reply to Eric Snell
“Article 23, section 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.”
That remuneration has to come from your employer – not strangers you’ve never met.
And don’t give me that cultural angle. It’s the “culture” in Arab countries to mistreat women. That doesn’t mean I’m going to do it. I’m not obligated to follow a bribing culture if it’s unethical.
And tipping is a bribe – nothing more.
Look, you’re missing the fundamental point here. I…don’t…care…about…waiter’s…salaries. Not…my…problem.
Is that clear enough? I look forward to the time when more and more people think this way.
In reply to bhagwad
You are right, I did miss the point. After reading your posts saying that the system was unfair and should be changed I thought you were confused, you weren’t, you were trying to justify your actions.
“the fundamental point here. I…don’t…care…about…waiter’s…salaries. Not…my…problem.”
You have now admitted it is simply your selfishness that prevents you from paying the people who work for you for their labor so I can conclude that you know what you are doing is inherently wrong yet you choose to continue to do it anyway. Considering you admitted that your decision not to tip is pretty much just based on your selfishness I’m surprised by your rebuttal to Anand GIRIDHARADAS’ article.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/02/world/asia/02iht-currents02.html?_r=1
People who steal from others are THIEVES thieves regardless of whether what they are doing is legal or otherwise… I would love to not have to add 10 to 25% to every one of my restaurant bills, but i do it every time because I have integrity.
In reply to Eric Snell
I don’t think the word “steal” means what you think it means.
In reply to bhagwad
That is where you are confused. If you gave 1% percent you wouldn’t be stealing, you would have payed the server what you thought was appropriate. When you give them nothing you have taken advantage of our cultural custom to force them to work without being compensated. As compensation of restaurant employees is your responsibility as a patron you are in fact stealing their labor by not paying them.
In reply to Eric Snell
Again – that waiter has no claim to the money in my wallet because I don’t have a contract with them saying anything of the sort. Nor am I billed for his/her services.
Ergo – no stealing. We shouldn’t be having this argument. Stealing has a very specific meaning. We’re both English speakers – surely we can agree on what it means?
About the “cultural norm” thing – I already explained why I have no obligation to follow an unethical cultural norm.
In reply to Eric Snell
You shot down my hypothetical example with a technicality, but failed to address the spirit of the comment which addressed your lack of respect for other people and their cultures.
Why do you think it is acceptable for you to do whatever you want in this country irrespective of our culture and the well being of the people who live here?
In reply to Eric Snell
Convenient isn’t it? To have a culture where people must just hand money over to you?
You didn’t address my example of ill treating women in the Arab world. Why should anyone follow an unjust and unethical custom especially when it’s not required?
In reply to bhagwad
Compare it to Common Law. It is an unwritten contract that you agree to when you sit down at a table to be served. If you don’t want to tip because you think it is unethical and you have manners you should respect your servers right to make a living, leave that table open for tipping customers and order your food To-Go. However, you don’t care about other people, you don’t care about our customs and you don’t feel that you should be polite… Whoever raised you did a wonderful job.
I did use the word stealing a little too loosely, you are ‘refusing to pay for services rendered’ which is still a crime.
In reply to Eric Snell
BTW, Id love to hear how you reconcile your flagrant selfishness with your rebuttal of Giridharidas’ article…. you sir are his thesis.
In reply to Eric Snell
Oh, a crime is it? Now apart from the definition of stealing I guess I have to teach you what “crime” means as well. Please show me which law I’m breaking.
Crime indeed. You’re moving from one mistake to a worse one.
Sorry, but I don’t believe in “unwritten business contracts”. It’s either on paper (via a bill) or I don’t have to pay it.
In reply to bhagwad
I hate having cold feet, since its not my obligation to respect other people’s cultural norms I think when I go to India I’m just gonna walk around Hindu temples wearing muddy boots. Just kidding, I’m not an ‘Ugly American’, but you are the Indian version of one.
In reply to Eric Snell
Umm…temples are usually private property and the rules (if there are any) are clearly spelt out. There’s no “unwritten social contract”. You’ll be evicted if you don’t follow the rules.
Fail. Try again.
In reply to bhagwad
Again, I am not in the hospitality industry. And yes it is typically considered convenient to have people compensate you for your labor.
If you look up the Universal Declaration of Human Rights you’ll find that Saudi Arabia was one of a handful of nations that are not signatories… the point was that the right to just remuneration for labor is universally accepted and your argument about cultural norms not applying to you would only possibly be considered relevant if you were from Saudi Arabia or one of the Soviet Bloc nations which refused to sign.
And like I said before, in your case what you are doing is not illegal because it is only “customary to tip your server.” However, because you know that in America YOU and not the restaurant are considered responsible for paying the cost of your service leaving nothing for your server is just as inherently wrong as refusing to pay the plumber who repairs your leaky faucet after he finishes his work. Just because the plumber has legal recourse does not make the situation any different from a philosophical standpoint. Just because you can get away with something doesn’t make it right.
In reply to Eric Snell
The key word is “remuneration”. The waiter works for the restaurant. Not me. I go to a restaurant for food. I don’t care how it reaches me from the hands of the cook. That’s the restaurant’s business if they want to use a conveyor belt or a waiter. I don’t care either way.
It’s not my job to remunerate the waiter just like it’s not my job to remunerate the cashier at walmart.
“YOU and not the restaurant are considered responsible for paying the cost of your service “
You keep saying that but repeating it doesn’t make it so. Where is the evidence?
When a plumber comes to my house, I called him. So I paid him. When I go to a restaurant, I pay the restaurant. I couldn’t care less about the waiter. I treat the waiter like a chair or table – something the restaurant is providing to complete its service. I pay the entire cost of that in my bill.
In reply to bhagwad
Your Randian lack of a moral compass and empathy are disgraceful. If only you had a fucking heart. People like you make me ashamed to be human. FUCK YOU
In reply to Eric Snell
again i’m with bhagwad on thsi one. You cannot force norms on people without their consent. If I don’t eat meat, can I force this norm upon you?
I also don’t need GREAT SERVICE–i understand others do, but you are creating a STATIC assumption.
Let me give you an example using minimum wage–the government is STATICALLY assuming that ALL people MUST have $8/hour to live. Who are they to tell me how I can live or not? I went years by making less than minimum wage (under the table) and guess what, i’m still alive. Proof of this is the fact that I am typing.
I understand the system sucks, but don’t bring me into it. I’m patrionizing you guys, so don’t criticize me. You guys in the restaurant business were hit hardest during the recession, yet continue to act arrogantly and expect a HIGHER tip now (from 15% to 20%) which is ridiculous (btw some of you gusy say double the tax, but here in Cali, its almost 9%, so you are asking for an 18% tip!!!!???). You guys don’t have the 1099’s or the W-9’s but as a CONSUMER, this is NOT my problem.
Why don’t you unionize? Strike? Boycott? QUIT THE JOB IF IT IS SO UNFAIR AND BAD!!!
I would never accept a job that pays less than $60,000/ year as I have gained the knowledge, skills and experience this way. When I first started working however, I received a few dollars here and there. GUESS WHAT–THIS IS LIFE!!!!!
Life is hard. I understand Americans feel this sense of entitlement–minimum wage, social security, ridiculous pensions, food regulations that are stupid, etc.–but c’mon its life. Its hard. Get over it.
I lived just fine making $2/hr when I was, i don’t understand why others cant either. Again, take it up with your employer, I have nothing to do with your wages as a CONSUMER. When I go to Best Buy, I am there to purchase a computer. The workers there help me decide which computer is the best. They are paid the wage they agreed with the employer. They do not EXPECT tips.
You say Eric, you should SEE yourself as a contractor, but I POSSESS NO CONTRACT IN HAND!!! WHY WOULD I AGREE TO SOMETHING IF I DO NOT POSSESS IT IN PAPER!!! Do you guys not understand business? Morals don’t carry business. Actual written contracts, agreements carry business.
I do not mean to sound mean at all, but in the business world, in FREE MARKET SOCIETY, YOUR LIVELIHOOD DOES NOT CONCERN ME. I’M AT YOUR ESTABLISHMENT TO CONSUME, THAT IS IT. If anything, providing an atmosphere of guilt and begging DETERS customers.
So in a free market society, unless it is on my bill, I can pay whatever i want, be it 0%, 10%, 3.136782%, or a flat $5.00.
BTW if patrons find the W-9 inconvenient, they should start acting like better employers and start filling it out. It is there responsibility to do so.
It seems that the employers are a bunch of Mussolinis and the waiters take it out on the CONSUMER!!! HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?
I have to agree with Eric. Having worked for tips in the past as both a waiter and a bellhop, I understand the service employee’s perspective of expecting to recieve decent tips. However, I also find it reprehensible that the government allows restaurant owners to get away with not paying their employee’s a decent wage. But for the time being, it is what it is. As for not leaving a tip when you know it’s expected and you know it is what the server depends on to survive is just plain ingnorant and insensitive. Call it what you want, but it is. You are making the choice not to tip, which you are free to do. And before you start with “It’s their choice to stay there”, let me just tell you, that they will just make up their tips on the next table. That’s why they stay. And yes, I under reported my tips to the IRS, but I’m sure you would have too. As far as any particular race not tipping anymore than the other, well that varied across the whole gammet. That’s just stupid. Some Americans tipped more that other’s, and some Europeans, Asians, Indians, etc. tipped more that the Americans at times. You never really know who is going to tip. But I can say I never gave anyone any worse service when they did or didn’t tip me. You’re right, it’s job you choose to do. Some people don’t tip, but most do. But again, to not tip knowing your expected to is just low class. It really is.
In reply to Aurelio Corso
This is what I don’t get: All other industries in the US have unionized and forced their employers to change a shitty pay system. Or even change the law. Why haven’t servers done the same?
When I go to a restaurant, I just want to eat and pay what I have to: namely the bill. I don’t want any subjectivity. The true problem as you mentioned, is your employer not paying you a decent wage upfront.
In reply to Aurelio Corso
Bhagwad brings up the arbitrary nature of tipping. Why can’t people that rely on tips unite and demand their industry to enact a standardized tippign ssytem? It doesnt have to go through the government. It can be that the unions demand all the restaraunts to enact a standard 10-15% tip, otherwise they won’t serve?
BTW its SO arbitrary. so again lets take a 20% tip. I go to a restaraunt with 5 people, we spend $50 dollars total so that is a $10 dollar tip. Everybody gets one dish only.
I go to a restaraunt by myself, i get ONE dish that is $40 dollars–an 8 dollar tip for one dish!!!!!
Its so arbitrary. Then again with the way things are here in America, everything has become arbitrary. Everybody HAS to have this stupid sense of entitlement (most who don’t deserve it).
BTW Aurelio–good call on the race thing. I’m glad this board isn’t filled with ignorant people.
Back to the industries in the US. Everyone has unionzed to get their employers to provide better wages, otherwise they wold have walked. Why can’t restaraunt staff do the same? You don’t even need the government involved! The head of the union can just tell the employers that give us fair wages or we walk, that is it. how is that difficult? EVERYBODY else has done it and are STILL doing it?
I don’t believe in minimum wage. I don’t believe in government regulation. In America, we are supposed to have the liberty to chose as we please. We don’t need the government to tell me I can’t buy this food or I have to pay my employees EXACTLY $8.00 per hour at minimum. Its between my employee and me, that is it. If I find an employee that enthusiastically accepts a job for $5/hour, why can’t i accept him? Why are you infringing on my liberty?