It never fails to shock me how a tip is demanded in the US. People simply refuse to listen to reason when we (yes, there are others!) tell them that leaving a tip isn’t necessary. Well, I’m hoping for too much here, but if you’re a waiter, here are 5 reasons why I will try my best not to give any money to you and why the reasons for tipping are crappy.
1. You act as if you’re my best friend
Just leave me alone ok? I don’t want to bloody chit chat with you. I want food. FOOD! Get it? It’s a restaurant. I go there to eat. I go because I want either Italian food, Chinese Food or something else which I can’t get in a McDonald’s. So I come to a restaurant to fulfill my cravings for it. I will pay for what I value – food. Not you.
Christ, you offend me – kneeling down next to my table, pretending to like me and chatting as if you’re my best friend when it’s obvious that all you’re after is the tip! I’m not a bloody money bag you know. I will pay the bill which includes the cost of the food, the environment and the salaries of the people involved – nothing more.
The only way to get money out of me that I don’t have to legally pay is by prying it out of my cold dead hands…
Bottom line: I don’t want to know your name, or interact with you for any longer than I have to in order to place my order. As far as I’m concerned, you’re the equivalent of a conveyor belt that brings me my food and a computer into which I input my order. Of course, I won’t be rude. But don’t expect me to interact with you any more than I would with some stranger.
Image Credit: cafemama
2. You don’t get paid enough
And this is my problem how exactly? It’s astonishing that customers are expected to make up for your employer’s cheapness in not paying you a decent wage. Please include the full cost in everyone’s bill thank you very much. I’ll pay it because I have to and the charge is there for me to see.
What’s really funny here is that no one seems to criticize the employers! All criticism is reserved for non tipping customers instead of the owners of the restaurant for not paying a decent wage. Wtf! Could it possibly be because you guys know you can make much more by tips and under report your income to the IRS?
3. You’ll spit in my food if I don’t tip you?
And I’ll shoot your kid if you don’t give me a million dollars. Seriously, am I even hearing this right? You’re actually using the threat of blackmail to make me pay you? Well as long as you’re openly claiming to be a criminal it’s all right I guess.
Fortunately that’s why I prefer buffets. Listen apart from it being illegal, this shows your poor integrity. But if you spit in someone’s food because they didn’t give you money you didn’t earn, then you’re a loser and deserve to be a waiter for the rest of your life.
4. Bringing me my food isn’t worthy of being paid extra
Did you cook it? Did you invent it? No. You picked it up and brought it to me. While it might not be easy, there are plenty of jobs which are much worse – shop floor workers for example. And I’ve been a shop floor manager, so I know. Face it – compared to other jobs, being a waiter is unskilled. You get paid what the market will think your services are worth. You don’t deserve more for your work over and above what your employer should pay you.
5. Money doesn’t grow on trees
I expect you to be grateful and pray for me at night if I tip you 10%. Be happy I gave you anything at all. I worked for the money in my wallet and by giving you some I didn’t have to, I’m doing you a favor. Learn to remember that when people give you something they don’t need to, it’s a favor. You don’t complain that they didn’t give you more!
By the way, the same thing above applies to all professions that demand tips including those on cruise liners.
So now that you understand why I won’t give you money you don’t deserve, stop with the “oh how could you?” attitude. I can. And I will.
Update: Here’s a rebuttal of the many silly justifications for tipping that people have given in the comments section.
btw–wolf is pretty much echoing what I feel–these are the sentiments of NORMAL people!!!!
@ Valerie I don’t care what the government says. Why is it my business to meddle in your personal life. I don’t have to support strangers in restaurants. I will pay the bill and nothing more. WHAT PART OF THAT DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND? Are you a marxist when you said that food prices would skyrocket if you were paid retail wages? Did you get that idea from the labor theory of value. Prices are determined by labor costs?
Personally, I could care less about your upbringing but stop taking your whining and complaining and then blaming others for your troubles. It isn’t my job to pay you. Ask your employer that if he/she doesn’t pay you x, you will quit and work for somebody else.
In fact, you are a coercive manipulative liar. Forcing others to pay you chump change because somehow the “government” expects it and therefore you are the agent in charge in forcing people to accept this system. Shame on you and all of your fellow waiters/waitresses.
Your not the queen of the world. Face that. Nobody has to listen to anything that you say this day not any other day. Do you know that 50% of the population lives beyond their means. Are you asking me to support them.
NO MORE TIPPING! By the way to common sense, thank you for standing up for me.
In reply to Dan
Dan, if you could care less about my upbringing (i.e. my character), why make commentary on it to begin with? I already explained that my comment on the menu prices is simply my personal take on what might happen. Did you even read anything I wrote?
“Forcing others to pay you chump change” Who is being forced? Not sure why government is in quotes, but they do refer to us as tipped employees afterall. It’s not something i’m making up and its not something I invented. This is how it works in the restaurant industry. Like it or don’t. And, sure, its within your power to not leave a tip. In my opinion, this makes you a bad person.
I’m not even going to address the rest of your reply, because it’s slightly incoherent. What a gaggle of idiots this “article” has brought together. (And i’m trying so hard to not go on a rant about the original content, too. “Don’t talk to me”, yeah..don’t worry. I don’t want to look at your ugly mug any longer than I have to you miserable troll.)
Thank goodness the lot of you are in the minority and I still make decent money. It’s just hard, as a server, to not be offended when I don’t receive a tip. Makes me wonder if I had done something wrong.
By the way.. life as a noble adult who tips, is awesome. You get all kinds of perks from free dessert, appetizers, drinks, and goodies. I know that whenever I come into some swag, I give it to my best customers.
In reply to Valerie
Once again all servers in the United States GET MINIMUM WAGE. If they do not get enough in tips, the employer, by FEDERAL LAW must pay out the difference and bring them up to the minimum. There is no expectation that the government has for you to tip. The only expectation there is, is that somehow, the server does end up with their fair wage by the end of the week. Just go to the Department of Labor’s official page and look it up (i’m not sure if links are allowed here), but it is clearly stated. If your employer isn’t doing that, a seriotus law is being broken.
This whole “we get 3 an hour” argument is totaly facile. If your state has a lower “tipped employee wage” you still get the difference if your tips don’t add to the minimum… You get minimum wage. If you think you deserve more than MINIMUM WAGE (which im not saying if you do or don’t) talk to your employer.
And prices would NOT tripple. I have been an Area Director long enough to know labor percentages but it doesn’t take a genius to get this one. IF there were a mark-up in prices it would be 10-15%… The same ammount as the TIP!
In reply to Valerie
Again Valerie, the way I see it is you are part of an entrenched culture who refuses to look at reality set in front of you. If the lord doesn’t give you a tip, they are “bad”? Why? Because again you are part of a sick entrenched culture where you are trained to be a beggar and if all goes well you make more than a shop floor worker even though you didn’t do anything to merit a nice wage. There is a reason why you are not paid well. It is because your job does not require skilled labor. But you say it is “hard” because you make it out to be on yourself in order to be a showoff.
So tell me why should I give you a bigger tip because I ordered a $40 rib eye as opposed to a $20 turkey breast? You didn’t do anything except bring me my dishes.
And yes I bring up your upbringing because you have admitted you are a spoiled brat. You use your upbringing against others who don’t wish to follow your poverty glorifying lifestyle. And if you are giving “free” food to your so called “best customers” you are stealing from your employer. You might go to jail for that. And you don’t “own your customers” because they are not your property? You don’t control them anymore than “your job”. You don’t own any of those things.
Your despicable because you force people to be brainwashed by you and others in your creed in order to accept what you say at face value. Just admit it.
In reply to Dan
Maybe we can try and be a bit more polite. I disagree with her views, but I don’t think personally attacking someone so strongly is a legitimate form of debate.
I agree with the substance of what you’ve written though. I’d just like to keep the discussion polite.
In reply to bhagwad
I thoroughly believe the reason we end up acting so impolitely is because this is probably one of the most controversial topics in the US. Not birth control, not gun control, but tipping. People in the media tend to shy away, but it is and remains hotly debated. But I do agree Bhagwad, I’ll try to keep it polite.
Valerie–Ryan made the point about how all wait staff make minimum wage. If tips are reported and end up being under minimum wage, it is the employer’s responsibility. The fact that Ryan is an Area Director makes him much more credible. To add to this, I used to work in Food and Beverage (manufacturing) and the price mark ups for something as simple as, say juice, is roughly 500%. THink about that number for a bit.
Also, how is it that, say farm workers, who receive $5/hour, which is less than minimum wage, do not receive tips? Why is it that Wal Mart cashiers cannot receive a tip? What about McDonald’s employees?
I hate to say it, but you being a single mother with however many children does not concern me. I am a consumer. This is a capitalist society. In capitalism, we do not consider the social ramifications of our purchases. Case and point, most of the clothes you are wearing were manufactured in a sweat shop in South Asia. Most of that manufacturing violates basic human rights. We’ve recently heard of a fire in a Bangladesh sweat shop not too long ago. As unfortunate as this sounds, this is how capitalism works. Although we should see some changes to such an utterly devastating system, this what we are left with.
You being a single mother does not concern me. What concerns me is whether my food tastes good or not and whether I pay fairly. I want to pay EXACTLY what is on the receipt. Whatever is on the receipt is the only amount I am Legally obliged to pay. The rest of the amount is voluntary.
Let me ask you another question. Isn’t service itself subjective? If you, as a server, thoroughly believe you are doing an excellent job, won’t there be some customers that may disagree and, therefore, leave you a smaller tip?
We’ve already fully established that wait staff make minimum wage at least IF reported properly.
In reply to bhagwad
I will try my best bhagwad but I simply can’t stand people who to me represent all whats wrong with America. They are entitled and won’t have it any other way. Once something is entrenched it is too hard to change it.
In reply to Dan
Oh, lol, I almost forgot to address the “freebies” thing. Not surprising you wouldn’t understand it. As a bartender, I’m given a dollar amount that I can use daily for “buy backs”. Free drinks for customers as I see fit. The restaurant provides this to me.
Often times, a restaurant will be given plenty of goodies from their wine/liquor or beer distributor. Can be anything from glassware, key-chains, t-shirts and so on. I give this stuff to my favorite customers.
When you become a regular customer, and get to know both the staff and management, you might find yourself the recipient of a free appetizer or dessert. Again, this is not stealing. Management will comp the dish as a thank you for being such a good, loyal customer.
As I’ve said NUMEROUS times, there are self-entitled assholes in the profession who make minimum wage or more but think they deserve tips on top of that. I’m not defending those people, so don’t worry, I’m not making a defense for that.
I’m making a defense on behalf of hardworking waiters and waitresses who are making below minimum wage, work for their money, and on top of being stiffed at the end of the night, they are looked down upon and treated poorly by the people who they busted their asses to serve.
It’s bad enough when a tip isn’t left, but it’s ridiculous to see people try to justify their ways and speak poorly of waiters for choosing that profession. Insult on top of injury really isn’t necessary.
And just because there is not a contract between you and a waiter does NOT mean that they are not working for you. When you call someone to mow your lawn, there is no contact, but they are still working for you and it is your responsibility to compensate them. When you call someone to clean your pool or your house, there is no contractual agreement, but you still pay them. And why is that? Because you are requiring their service. Therefore you pay the bill. In almost EVERY direct contact job between employee and customer, the customer pays the employee for their services. NOT the “place of business.
I mean jeez, it’s even how a Lawyer’s Office functions.
So don’t mistake that just because the waiter works on behalf of the restaurant, that you are NOT inquiring their services and are not responsible for paying for the services which you use.
The money you pay your bill for is on behalf of the chefs, the restaurant bills (electricity, water, rent, etc), the food iteslf, and then some for profit on the business end. And I guess in California, the waiters are included in that money too. But most everywhere else, the waiters compensation is not part of the bill, and most receipts will CLEARLY state “GRATUITY NOT INCLUDED”.
Which means that your money is NOT paying for the service you used by having someone wait on you.
Do not mistake tipping a waiter for giving away “FREE MONEY”. I keep seeing people repeat that and it’s absolutely ludicrous. Giving away free money would be giving a beggar on the side of the road money just because he has a sign saying “HOMELESS AND NEED HELP: GOD BLESS”. THAT is giving away free money.
But when you step foot into a restaurant, engage the servers service, have them do MORE than just bring your food, like bring your drink, get you ketchup, get you an extra side of this or that, occasionally they MAKE your drink from scratch or your food, and then when you leave they clean up your mess, they are earning a tip. They are being a good server on your behalf, not because they are just trying to be nice, but because they are trying to give you good service so in turn, you will leave them a good tip.
Best system? NO. Does it work though? YES.
I’ve never said other jobs haven’t had it bad. I’ve never said waiters have it worse than anyone. I completely disagree with that. And the fact of the matter is, at the end of the day, things aren’t going to change, because people like you represent the minority. While you may stiff waiters, someone else will compensate them to make up for your lack thereof. The waiter will come out on top 8 out of 10 times.
It just astounds me how people like you ADD to the problem. You think just because a bill typed in black ink isn’t shoved down your throat, you are above being a decent person and paying someone who is working, doing services FOR YOU. They may be waiters at the restaurant, but you are engaging their individual service. Even leaving 2 or 3 bucks is better than nothing.
And honest to god, if you are strapped for money THAT BAD that you can’t leave a few dollars, than why are you even eating out?
In reply to Brittney
If the gardener was being employed by a contracting agency, I wouldn’t pay the gardener but the contracting agency. I’m not employing the gardener directly and so no payment.
Also, your gardener and you agree on a rate beforehand.
“Because you are requiring their service. Therefore you pay the bill. “
I think this is the fundamental point. Provide me with a bill for services (and tell me the rate beforehand) and I will pay. Without any bill or any agreement beforehand, there is no obligation for me to pay you separately. Everything is included in the bill I receive.
In reply to bhagwad
Just out of curiousity, bhagwad, let’s say you frequent a nearby restaurant and don’t ever tip. Upon your, 5th or 6th visit, you see the restaurant has added gratuity to your bill. You then have no problem paying it? Simply because it’s been printed instead of handwritten by you?
In reply to Valerie
No problem whatsoever.
But they should also print their gratuity policy somewhere like on the menu so I can know about it beforehand. All this has to do with a simple concept – an agreement of services rendered and payment demanded.
Tell me beforehand what you’re going to deliver and how much it’s going to cost. Then deliver the service and bill me for the cost. I pay the bill and we can go our separate ways.
If I find the payment demanded is too much, I’ll take my business elsewhere. Doesn’t it work like this everywhere?
In reply to bhagwad
Ok..wait. So you’d rather be informed of the cost of mandatory included service instead of just determining what it will cost for yourself in the current system? Seems like more freedom for the customer in the current system.
What you just said, though, sort of conflicts with the article you wrote. You gave 5 very poor excuses and not one stated just because it wasn’t part of your bill. You’re dancing around and the one and only reason you don’t tip: because you just don’t care about anyone’s well being.
“It’s not my fault the government/company doesn’t pay you more” = I don’t care about you.
“It isn’t absolutely required for me to tip” = I don’t care about you.
“It’s capitalism!$U$^#$” = I don’t care about you.
In reply to Valerie
Oh, yeah.. unfortunately your proposed system wouldn’t fly where I am. Law states a restaurant cannot add an automatic or included gratuity. :\
In reply to Valerie
Yes, I would much rather be informed about a mandatory cost beforehand. That way I can decide not to eat at all and go elsewhere.
An even better solution is to just add it to the cost of the food. And I don’t lose my freedom since I can choose to go to another place after checking the menu prices online.
In reply to Valerie
Haha, Valerie, this is what I have said all along. At one of my prior comments, I debunked every excuse he gave as to why he doesn’t tip. I proved they are all irrelevant. And stated that at the end of the day, it comes down to 1 reason, and it’s that he isn’t at this point in time legally required to.
All it comes down to, isn’t that waiters had a poor choice in picking a job, or that the waiters didn’t earn their tip, or that the waiters did something wrong (with the exception of terrible service)… it all boils down to the customer being STINGY with money and heartless and compassionateless to his fellow working citizen.
If someone has to be legally forced to do the morally right thing, the problem is not the system, but the person itself.
Then again, it makes him sound better when he degrades the waitstaff, doesn’t it? It makes him sound like less of a cheapskate and a higher being than those that wait on him. But really, the problem is him and people like him. At the end of the day, they saved a couple bucks by not tipping, but they are only showing their true colors as a fellow human being.
In reply to Brittney
And yet…no one tips walmart cashiers even though they get shitty wages.
So I guess your last paragraph applies to everyone in the US :)
In reply to bhagwad
Well, I don’t shop at Wal Mart, but regardless. Wal Mart cashier earn anywhere from $8/hr to $12/hr. Around $16/hr for overtime (and I assume holidays also).
If a Wal Mart cashier were to provide me with the service of helping me lug out a large item, I would tip them.
Irrelevant statement, though. Wal Mart cashiers make atleast federal minimum if not more, so bringing this up has nothing to do with what we’re talking about.
Nice job on just ignoring the fact that you’re still a shit-bag person.
In reply to Valerie
Do you really care about how much a walmart cashier makes? If tomorrow you read in the news that walmart cashiers got a pay cut would you suddenly tip them a percentage of your grocery bill? You wouldn’t. No one would.
And no one should tip waiters either.
In reply to bhagwad
All i have to say is that bhagwad is an idiot. Oh, and as a server myself, i know i make more money than you, so, in reality, i win! And, yes i KNOW i make more money than you!
In reply to bhagwad
LOL nice attempt at trying to apply my statement to all US citizens. You have REPEATEDLY brought up Walmart employees. But guess what, the contracts between Walmart and Restaurants are VERY different. The wages are VERY different. A walmart employee will NEVER make below minimum wage. Waitstaff does. You do not engage a walmart employees service, and they do not run around for you. A waiter does.
NOT EVEN COMPARABLE. So why do you bother comparing them? I do not tip a walmart employee because they do DIDDLY SQUAT for me. They don’t do me favors. They stand in one spot and scan my items, then send me on my way.
Now, if I were to give them my shopping list, tell them to go do my shopping, and then expect them to ring me up and clean up messes I make, then MAYBE you’d have a valid argument. But that’s not the case, it’s not comparable.
What walmart employee have you ever met that personally serves you and is attentive to you specifically during your walmart visit and is making $2-4 per hour??? None??? EXACTLY. NOT COMPARABLE.
That’s like me comparing a cow to a dolphin… You’re probably thinking “WTF, that was random.” YEP. Well you comparing Walmart jobs to waiting is RANDOM.
I will tip my hairdresser. I will tip my bellhop. These people are personally serving me and my individual requests. A walmart employee DOES NOT.
So no, my last paragraph does not apply to everyone in the US.
In reply to Brittney
I do not engage a waiter’s services either. I don’t care how my food gets to me – whether its by a conveyor belt or a person. I only engage the restaurant. The restaurant uses waiters to bring me my food.
Just like a walmart cashier.
As for job descriptions, you do what your employer tells you to do. You’re not doing the customer a favor. If your employer tells you to wait tables, you wait tables.
That’s it.
Sorry to bust your bubble but there’s no difference here.
In reply to Brittney
Yep. People are entitled to do as they please (tip or don’t). I just wish said people would own up to the fact that they lack compassion as the only valid reason for not tipping. Barf out all the articles you want with reason upon reason, but it all boils down to this one fact.
Dan… you clearly have this preconceived notion about me, someone you’ve never met, so I won’t bother trying to convince you otherwise. “…even though you didn’t do anything to merit a nice wage”. I’ll have to disagree with you there. Of course, everyone’s opinion of which job is “harder” will always differ, but please don’t assume that working in a restaurant is easy. I would most certainly refer to it as manual labor, sprinkled with customer service. Those two job descriptions on their own are hard, let alone fused together.
I’m aware that my employer is obligated to pay the difference, if my tips + set wage do not reach federal minimum. Thankfully I’ve never had to deal with this situation, but I think most places will calculate weekly or even monthly. This results in days where a person can make well below minimum wage. It’s very flawed. I’m willing to bet many small businesses don’t even engage in this practice because their staff doesn’t know any better. Seems as though owners of restaurants are the “bad guys”. I would agree with many of you there.
Farm workers making $5? How so, when employers are obligated to pay a federal minimum wage then? You just said it yourself. Seems illegal to me.
Really, what this all comes down to is compassion. When I go to a restaurant, I tip. I tip because either I enjoyed myself and the service and I want to show my appreciation. Or, because I know that the hourly wage is low, the system is flawed and I care about my fellow man.
You don’t have to care like I do. That’s fine. You’re entitled to be totally indifferent to the world around you. Just don’t pretend that you take this non-tipping stance for anything else other than a lack of concern. Atleast the author is straight up… “I don’t give a shit what you’re going through, what you get paid or how you feel”.
For the record, i’m not a single mother or a mother at all. It’s called a hypothetical situation. I’m drawing on my experiences in the business for 8 years. I’ve met a lot of coworkers in dire situations is all.
In reply to Valerie
Valerie,
Yeah I don’t know you but I already have my opinion as to your conduct that you have displayed on this forum. I think you are just like all of these other americans in that you are obsessed with class politics.
Let me tell you right now, when you tip you do not care about your fellow man. When you tip, you continue to support the institution of begging for a living. It doesn’t matter whether its for barbers, bell hops, or waiters. Stop fooling others around here into a false sense of security that tipping is “good”. I am sure that because someone didn’t give you your “precious”tip that you would spit in their food. I am sure you have done it once.
Your the problem and that is why the tipping system continues to exist. As long as the majority says that tipping is good and the minority always loses, then there will be tipping.
Valerie–you are discussing these “returned customer” basis and what not. As I mentioned, as did Bhagwad, I’m not at a restaurant to make friends. I’m there to eat.
Why can’t auto-grat just be enabled? It would remove a lot of thinking on my part and also remove a heck of a lot of other problems.
Also, why is it that when Iwas a kid in the 80s, tipping was 10%. The 90s was 15%. the 2000s saw 18%. Now in NYC they are asking for 25%?
Please answer this. The food always rises in terms of price according to inflation and, therefore, 15% for example should have been maintained since the 90s. What gives? Is it this entitlement your very staff always insist upon, as other commenters have noted?
Yes Farm workers do make $5/hour. Its a little thing called illegal immigration, but thats another discussion for another time.
Remember, tipping is not legal. Therefore, I can pay whatever I want, right?
How is Wal Mart staff different? Wal Mart employs the staff. The restaurant employs the staff. Take a look at your W2 paperwork and you’ll see who the employer is. If its a contractor, you’ll see the contractor’s name. You don’t see the customer who tips your wages on your W2’s guys, sorry.
Brittney—as you said, I no longer have to tip here in California. Thank you.
Everytime I get hassled (yes I get hassled) about tips here in Cali, I will mention you by name that you directly stated it is ok NOT to tip in Cali, since the wait staff is already paid minimum.
Who cares about tipping? Don’t give me that “compassion” argument. I’m speaking strictly about consumerism. This is called capitalism.
Valerie, do you remember the Soviet Union? They’re whole system revolved around “compassion” and “fair wages.” Look what happened to them.
So Valerie, if I don’t tip in California, does that make me a shit bag person too?
Valerie–and I really hate to say this, but your self righteousness doesn’t debunk the fact that 5-10% of the workforce make minimum wage (including wait staff). Only about 30% of those are wait staff. What about the rest of the 70%? Why don’t they get the proper tips? Its such a phony system.
I am not legally obliged to pay a tip, therefore I will not. Besides, here in California, wait staff receive minimum wage anyways.
In reply to Common Sense
“Why can’t auto-grat just be enabled?”
Ask the government, not me.
“15% for example should have been maintained since the 90s. What gives?”
I’m sorry, what? Are you saying there has been no inflation since the 90s? Or? I’ll tell you something that has been the same since the 90s, and that is tipped employee wages. This, despite the fact regular minimum wage has gone up several times.
“How is Wal Mart staff different?”
Wal Mart staff is paid a higher hourly wage and also receives overtime and holiday pay. Waiters are paid a significantly less hourly wage. That is the difference.
“illegal immigration”
Are you really trying to make a counterpoint using illegal workers?
“Who cares about tipping? Don’t give me that “compassion” argument.”
People trying to make a living care. You clearly don’t.
“Valerie, do you remember the Soviet Union?”
Right, so you leaving a few dollars for a service will cripple this country. Tell me more.
“if I don’t tip in California, does that make me a shit bag person too?”
No. But your attitude does.
“Valerie–and I really hate to say this”
No you don’t.
“Why don’t they get the proper tips?”
Employees earning a tipped employee wage are supposed to get tips. End of discussion. Stop trying to warp and twist it by bringing other professions into this.
In reply to Valerie
Inflation is irrelevant since the price of food have gone up. As a percentage, it automatically keeps up with inflation.
There’s no need for auto grat since you might as well just include the tip in the price of the food itself.
And I’m sorry, but I have to compare being a waiter with a walmart cashier. From the customer’s perspective there’s no difference.
In reply to Common Sense
I’d be more than happy for you to tell waiters in other states that get tipped minimum wage that they don’t require a tip. I personally would still leave a small tip, but they absolutely don’t need it as bad as the waiter make $2/hr,
As I’ve said, my defense is for underpaid waiters, not waiters who make what millions of other workers make and still think they deserve more. I’m not defending them.
Oh and as far as how Walmart and Restaurant staff are different, it’s all in the job description. DUH, both jobs say “Do this job”, but one is paid significantly more than the other, one doesn’t require the worker to be attentive to the individuals in the place of business, one job is rather consistent, and one doesn’t hire their employees and give them the expectation that their income will be 80% tips.
Which one? Walmart. Huge differences.
In reply to Brittney
Please explain why exactly the customer should care about your rate of pay that you’ve personally negotiated with your employer?
The customer is abstracted from all these details. He/she wants to receive service, not be concerned about your economic situation.
In reply to bhagwad
I would LOVE if you could put a survey on this blog or anywhere for that matter. The question being:
“Is the service provided between a Walmart employee and a customer different from that of a Waitress and a customer.”
I guarantee you that the overwhelming answer would be yes.
It doesn’t surprise me that from your perspective, their is no difference in the two. Because you are the same person who wrote this ridiculous blog with BS excuses. But ask any logical person, and there is DEFINITELY a difference.
AND HAHA, you said it yourself.
“Please explain why exactly the customer should care about your rate of pay that you’ve personally negotiated with your employer?
The customer is abstracted from all these details. He/she wants to receive service, not be concerned about your economic situation.”
READ THAT LAST PART AGAIN
“(The customer) wants to receive service, not be concerned about your economic situation.”
EXACTLY. You did NOT say “The customer wants to receive their food”. You said “The customer wants to receive SERVICE.”
Well, let me tell you Bhagwad. I would LOVE to receive service without be concerned about the economic side of it. I’m sure we’d all love that. But service costs money, and whether or not you shell out that money, it is still the system.
I would be awfully ashamed if I were your parents. It’s amazing how cold and oblivious some people can be.
In reply to Brittney
“But service costs money”
Then you’re most welcome to present me with a bill for services (through the restaurant of course). I’ll pay it. But don’t offer stuff for free and then complain.
Actually this is a moot point. I’m already paying a heavy markup on the food to have it delivered to me. The restaurant chooses you to perform that function. Whether it’s you, or a conveyor belt is not my concern. You’re an employee – you will do your job whether you want to or not or else get fired.
In reply to bhagwad
I really am curious by the way— Go into a restaurant and tell the manager it is the restaurants job to tip their waiters and you won’t leave a tip. I am curious to see how the manager would react to a customer being forward about how unimportant he views the restaurant employees. They are essential to the dine out experience.
And you are paying a heavy markup on the food already because their are other fees that are in your meal besides just the food. The rent, electricity, water, kitchen staff, management staff, and they have to make a decent profit on top of that.
You do not engage the waiters service, huh?
Okay, then let me ask you a few honest questions and we can resolve that statement truthfully.
When you dine out, do you only make your order while you are there? Is that the only time your waiter/waitress deals with you? Do you simply say “I want the steak and a coke.” And when your coke is empty, do you bother your waiter/waitress to request a refill? If you want your waiter/waitress to act as a conveyer belt that doesn’t require tips, than all they should be obligated to do for you is take your order the first time (that means no asking for side requests: more sauce, etc), and for them to bring you your food.
The waiters should not have to help prepare your food or beverages (Which in many cases they do)
They should not have to check on you (And please tell me, how many times have you ever dined out and NOT have a waiter check to make sure you aren’t in need of anything?)
They should not have to clean up your mess at the end of your meal
They should not have to refill your drink
After all, a conveyer belt wouldn’t do any of these things.
So my questions are
1) Have you ever asked for a refill?
2) Have you ever made a special request after your order was taken?
3) When you are done eating, do you wipe down your table where you may have dripped some crumbs, and do you organize your dirty dishes into a neat pile, so that the waiter doesn’t have to clean up after you as much? Or do you simply eat, leave your dishes where they sit, and get up and leave?
I would love to know whether these answers are yes or no.
In reply to Brittney
All the work that you’ve mentioned is actually the restaurant doing the work using the waiter as a proxy. Just like when I get a gift from someone I thank them, not their hand which was directly responsible for giving me the gift.
The waiter is just “an arm” of the restaurant. All the services a waiter performs are actually being done by the establishment for me via the waiter. The waiter doesn’t exist as a separate person in that role. They’re absorbed by the restaurant.
So I only pay the restaurant which gives me a bill.
In reply to bhagwad
This response is totally uneducated.
Again, you compare things completely irrelevant to the point.
And you ignored my questions. You compared the waiter to a conveyer belt, so I was getting to the bottom of that statement. A conveyer belt would only bring you your order and a machine would take it.
So you’ve never asked for a refill?
You leave your table clean and orderly when you leave?
You don’t make special requests that require your waiter to make extra trips?
If you’ve ever done ANY of those things, the waiters are NOT equal to a conveyer belt.
And actually no, the waiters work and sweat is not being done via the establishment. That’s ludicrous. Each waiter is different, each waiting experience is different, and the waiters personal dealings with the customer is their main source of income, not the establishment. The waiter DOES exist as a separate person in that role. They are not ABSORBED by the restaurant, because the restaurant does not fully compensate them. The restaurant only prevents the waiter with the opportunity to make money.
It’s a “I scratch your back, you scratch mine” deal. The restaurant gets “nearly free” waitstaff, and the employee gets an opportunity to earn tips.
You’re cheap Bhagwad. Why are you so ashamed to admit it. You don’t care about the wellbeing of people around you. You knowingly engage their services knowing how the system works, knowing tips are part of their contract with the workplace, yet you choose to stiff them. Because a couple dollars to you are more important than compensating someone that you KNOW is not making minimum wage (NOT TALKING BOUT CALI HERE). You know they are working and serving you to make a tip from serving you. They uphold their end, you don’t uphold yours.
Why can’t you just admit you are cheap? If you have to have a bill shoved in your face to be a decent person or do the logical thing, you are cheap.
Your insane ways of thinking are NOT American, and the Americans who DO think your way are ALSO cheap.
Stop defending your choice not tip as the fault of the waiters choosing a bad profession, or the system being flawed, or that you don’t tip EVERYONE that works, or that your food is already overpriced, or that your not legally required to.
It comes down to the fact that YOU KNOW WHAT YOU’RE DOING when you don’t tip, and frankly, you don’t give a shit. You don’t give a crap about the system. You are cheap and don’t care. Period.
So why so much shame in admitting it? Why try to find every other point? The main point is that if it has to be FORCED UPON YOU to care about the wages of people who’s services you use, than the problem is you.
The restaurant DOES see the waitstaff as their own entity in the restaurant, otherwise, there would NOT be a tip system.
Just admit it, you are cheap.
In reply to Brittney
Well, shall we say a more sophisticated conveyor belt then? :) Does it matter? The waiter does those things because it’s part of their job description. Because their employer (the restaurant) makes them do it. They have no choice in the matter.
You keep harping about the waiter’s main source of income. How many times am I to tell you that customers don’t care! Your problems are your problems. The rest of the world isn’t interested.
The waiter is absorbed by the restaurant. They wear the same uniform, same branding, use the same menu, and will get fired if they don’t bring me my food, and refill my drinks. So no – I don’t see them as a separate entity anymore than I see a walmart cashier as a separate entity.
You say I don’t “uphold my end”? Where was the agreement made in the first place? Is it written on the menu? No. Is it written on the restaurant door? No. So don’t tell me I made an agreement. I didn’t. And it’s not “understood” either. This is business.
In reply to bhagwad
“Well, shall we say a more sophisticated conveyor belt then?”
What conveyer belt do you know of that is that sophisticated and could do all of those things?
“Does it matter?”
Absolutely, when you are comparing the 2.
“The waiter does those things because it’s part of their job description.”
So is the fact that they will make up the rest of their money in tips.
” They have no choice in the matter.”
Well if you were fair and told them only to bring your meal and nothing more, they’d have the choice to act only as a “Conveyer Belt” and not provide you with “free service” as you like to call it.
“You keep harping about the waiter’s main source of income.”
TIPS.
“How many times am I to tell you that customers don’t care! ”
Let me correct that statement. “Customers” DO care (which is why we tip). YOU don’t care. Don’t mistake your attitude for equal to caring, tipping Americans.
Your problems are your problems. The rest of the world isn’t interested.
Heartless, much? And actually, plenty of people care.
“The waiter is absorbed by the restaurant. They wear the same uniform, same branding, use the same menu, and will get fired if they don’t bring me my food, and refill my drinks. So no – I don’t see them as a separate entity anymore than I see a walmart cashier as a separate entity.”
So wait… just because they represent a restaurant by uniform, that justifies what exactly??? Their main source of income is still tips. Not sure where you’re going with that point.
“You say I don’t “uphold my end”? Where was the agreement made in the first place? Is it written on the menu? No. Is it written on the restaurant door? No. So don’t tell me I made an agreement. I didn’t. And it’s not “understood” either. This is business.”
You’re entire blog makes it clear that what is expected of you in the waiting industry IS understood. Keep trying to say it’s not, but your blog and thousands of comments following it make it crystal clear that you know what is expected before you go out to eat.
In reply to Brittney
Umm…your job description consists of your actions. Not the customers! It can’t be your “job description” to receive tips :D . Your work is decided between you and your employer. You can’t tell customers to care about what your negotiate privately with your employer.
You’re really arguing over whether or not a waiter is an employee of the restaurant? I’m 100% sure you’re legally wrong. And guess who pays the employees? The employer! You can’t rely on the restaurant’s customers for your income because the customers don’t do business with you. You’re just a mechanical function of the restaurant – a tool. Just like a walmart cashier is a tool of walmart.
I couldn’t care less what is “expected”. If I “expect” you to give me a million dollars it doesn’t mean I will. I don’t care if the whole world expects me to give you a million dollars. Just because a lot of people “expect” something doesn’t make it right.
In reply to Brittney
You’re acting as if those things are above and beyond the job requirements. It’s part of the JOB. Not something extra that requires extra compensation.
When you’re at the store and the cashier calls for a price check, they don’t get a tip for the ‘extra work’. It’s part of the job.
Plain and simple, YOU are not doing private business with the customer, therefore the customer is not in anyway required to give YOU any money. You are doing business with the customer on behalf of your employer. The employer is the only one required to give you money. And even if no one tips… guess what? Your employer is still required to pay out at least minimum wage.
In reply to Wolf
I was simply responding to the fact that Bhagwad said that he does not engage the waiters service, and he said they act as a conveyer belt.
I was making a point that a waiters service is A LOT MORE than what a conveyer belt would do.
Point is, I don’t care if you or Bhagwad or anyone else is cheap. I simply am debasing all justification for not tipping other than the fact that people who don’t tip are CHEAP and don’t care about their fellow American, even when they use their service KNOWING that it is their source of income.
It isn’t a foreign idea to tip in America. It’s in place and is understood because it is the norm. The system works, even though there are jackasses who think they are above tipping. It still works because the majority of people do tip. Why do the majority tip? Is it simply because they feel like giving away what Bhagwad and others consider “free money?” No. It comes down to this. We tip because we get the system. We have a conscience. We have the notion “treat others how you want to be treated.” We aren’t clenching our hard earned money in our hands because we know our waiter is working hard to earn money too. And it’s only RIGHT that if their income is based on tips, and you are aware of this fact, that you leave a tip.
If you are aware that tips are their main source of income and STILL don’t leave a tip, even a small one, you are a cheapskate. PERIOD. You can make defenses all day long saying “the system is flawed”, “it’s the employers job to pay the waitstaff”, “blah blah etc etc”… But at the end of the day, it boils down to the fact that you’re cheap, you don’t give a shit about other people, and if you did have at least SOME conscience, don’t go into a restaurant KNOWING that a tip is the waiters income source, and don’t work a waiter to death and then leave them nothing. Make it clear BEFOREHAND.
In reply to Brittney
fine, i’m a cheapskate.
Tipping is voluntary, and I’m tipping at MY discretion.
Get another job, go work at Wal Mart if they are paid $10/hour.
This isn’t Nazi Germany. I can go to a restaurant and not tip if I want. It is my freedom as an American.
Not caring about their fellow man? Go to Iraq or Afghanistan. 100% of those people probably say the same thing about ALL Americans, so don’t give me the “compassion” argument, when today’s Americans are more aggressive than ever.
Conscience? How about you typing on a keyboard that was manufactured in China probably by a sweatshop? You wearing clothes manufactured in Bangladesh by a sweatshop? Again, don’t give me that.
Do you buy food in America? 90% of the food you eat was picked or manufactured by illegal migrant workers making about $4/hour with NO tip.
I’m a consumer. Your ills mean nothing to me. I’m at the restaurant to…CONSUME. I’m not there to practice any form of activism
In reply to Common Sense
I’m NOT a waitress.
And I can’t believe your comparing being a morale person and leaving a tip (even small) to Nazi Germany, which was nothing but hate??? All I’m representing is compassion for your fellow citizens who are trying to earn a living by waiting on your table.
And yeah, America has TONS of problems, government being the big one. Full of greedy assholes. No news there. Just because someone in another country says that all Americans don’t care or are compassionateless does not mean it’s true.
And I can’t control what is done is Bangladesh or any other country for that matter.
And you’re really going to bring illegal workers into it? They shouldn’t even be here to begin with, then they wouldn’t have to worry about make $4/hr.
And when you place yourself in the American system, at a dine in establishment, you are doing more than just consuming food.
But I at least give you props for admitting your cheap. That’s really what it’s about. People being tight with money and not care about the fact that someone else is trying to earn theirs.
In reply to Common Sense
I was in the Marine Corps as a grunt. I worked 120 hour weeks and in the beggining I made less than 500 $ Biweekly. Nobody ever tipped me so much as a dime. Forget Walmart employees. Try going DAYS without food and sleep at far less than minimum wage.
Second my wife is Chinese, and I live in Mainland China. Servers work 70+ hours a week at less than 300$ a month (about 1900 RMB). They don’t get tips here. Servers are paid like every other job. In fact there is a LOT the Chinese will do for far less to make a living without complaining.
@ Britt… I actually agree which a great portion of what you say. Not all of course. For one let’s not forget the fact that servers do make minimum wage by the end of the week, even if the employer must pay the difference. It’s the Federal law. But to tell the truth, even though i’m against mandatory tipping, I’m a very genrous tipper even when I get bad service. I think the real problem is the “expectation” of tipping to begin with. If all states, like Cali, paid out minimum wage, there wouln’t be this issue to begin with.
It seems like the real issue is money plain and simple. There really is no reason that “tipped income jobs” should be on a lower wage scale than other jobs. The BS isn’t with the customer, it’s in the law. But I agree with the idea that mandatory tipping “because it’s our custom” is total crap. I don’t care how big I tip or how nice I am, it doesn’t increase my service quality for one, and for two it’s a dumb idea brought here from Europe by rich people that wanted to be “worldly”.
But Britt you are right though. It kind of is a shitty thing to not tip at least something. After all the expectation is there, and that’s why the server took the job in the first place. But they do get minimum wage no matter what though so for somebody who doesn’t tip, I respect them too.
For everybody else though the argument of “eat at home if you don’t like it” is a dumb argument. If everybody ate at home, the restaurants would be closed and you’d be out of the job… or working your ass off at Starbucks where there is no tip. And beleive me, I had a franchisee Starbucks in my area and THAT is a much harder job being a barista in a busy casino. Having 4 to 8 tables is nothing compared to that.
In reply to Ryan
Yes, I respect your differing opinion. But that was my MAIN point. If Bhagwad or Wolf said “I leave a SMALL tip, even $2 or $3”, I wouldn’t have anything to say.
I mean, it’s not the BEST tip in the world, but every little bit helps. And for a waiter, they should know better than anyone that any tip left is better than no tip.
But to leave absolutely nothing is cold and stingy.
In reply to Ryan
I am in no way arguing that a serving job is by any means harder or better than the job you had in the military. But, i do want to make one point. Making only $500 bi-weekly isn’t as bad when your housing, medical bills, and food is taken care of, for you and your family. And, i live in a place where we have two Air Force bases and a Navy base. i know lots of people on both bases, and i know how it works. Plus, almost every where you go here, the military gets a discount. Again, I’m not saying that my job compares IN ANY WAY to yours, but when you rely on tips for a living and, those things are not covered by the company one works for, it makes it a lot harder to survive.
I do, however, agree with you in a lot of ways. A tip should not be expected, it should be earned. And, I do work in the service industry. The only time I EVER get upset over a tip is when I worked my butt off for a table, and their bill is, say $100, and they leave me $5, or some such nonsense. And, even then it’s because i have to tip out 3% to the support staff, and another 3% to the bartender. Now I’m in the hole.
And, I have worked as a barista in a coffee shop, and it isn’t a harder job, because you don’t engage the customer in the same fashion. Plus, people don’t tend to get as upset about their coffee as they do their food. And, also, they are tipped. I tip the baristas at my local Starbucks every time i get coffee from there.
Again, though, i would like to reiterate, my job is in NO WAY in comparison to yours! And, though i agree with you on some points, i respect your opinion on they ones i don’t agree with.
In reply to dionne
When I said I was a Barista, I did much more than “make coffee”. The place I worked was a coffee shop that also served breakfast and lunch (just like any other restaurant), and was also a nic-nac/gift shop all in one.
My job included being a Barista at the #1 ranked coffee shop in town (constantly busy), I had to go to the grocery store and shop for the food items that the chef cooked with (I was being timed, so I always had to rush). I had to get numerous 10-lb bags of sugar, gallons of milk and creamer, and 12 & 24 packs of soda cans each visit.
On top of the excessive weight lifting, I had to push the cart UPHILL to the workplace.
I had to make bank runs (again, timed) to get change, no matter the weather outside. It was across the street, so driving wasn’t allowed and the traffic would’ve slowed down my time versus walking.
I had to check to mail at the local mailbox (timed)
I had to act as a dishwasher. I easily washed over 600 dishes per day. I scrubbed dishes. I had to clean the entire store, bottom to top. Including the bathrooms, the gift shop area, the dining area, and behind the counter. I had to sweep, mop, dust.
And on top of being a janitor. I was a waitress. I took customers orders, I brought the customer whatever they needed. I was the cashier, took the order, brought out the food when it was prepared (and sometimes even took part in preparing the food myself; deserts, pies, yogurt parfait, you name it). I cleaned down tables and flipped them, practically running around the store to keep up with the expected pace.
After all, they had their baristas doing a job that in any other business would be suitable for 10 people.
In one day of work, I did ALL of these things. Making 7.67/hr
So yeah… maybe a Starbucks Barista’s job is “easy”.
But I was not a Starbucks Barista, and my job as a Barista where I DID work as a waitress/dishwasher/busser/barista/retail worker/errands runner/etc, my job WAS harder than a waiting position.
I did and dealt with everything a regular waitress would, plus more. Wait, waitresses have it hard because on top of waiting tables and dealing with customers and their demands, they have to roll a bin of silverware at the end of the night? Well, I rolled a bin of silverware before every breakfast, lunch, and at the end of the day. I DID have to deal with people and their food, their ridiculous requests, I dealt with many assholes, and didn’t get tipped for it on top of that. I got no comps for food, no breaks, nothing.
And eventually, I quit because I was tired of busting my ass doing 10 peoples jobs for the pay of 1.
I’m sure waiters break more than even at minimum wage hourly after tips. So yeah, maybe a Barista job itself isn’t bad. But MY job was way harder than just waiting tables and I will contest that any day any time.
In reply to dionne
Oh and did I mention that after working their a month, we were bumped down to 5/hr plus tips.
Well, because it was a coffee shop (even though still a food dine in establishment), the majority of people did not tip. And the tips we DID get, we couldn’t keep. It went into a tip pool and was divided bi-weekly among the staff.
The rule was that if the tips didn’t equal out to us making at least minimum wage (7.67/hr) than our boss would automatically bump us up to minimum wage.
And the tips never broke us at above minimum wage. So tips really meant nothing for us, it only benefited our employers, less money they had to pay us.
In reply to Brittney
That’s actually exactly what I mean Britt. Dionne I understand that not all Barista jobs are the same and it really depends on the company (and venue) you work in really. But there are really tough barista jobs out there. The casino venue is tough even for Starbucks. And people really don’t like to tip in a coffee shop no matter what you’re making because it’s not dine in and they dont “feel” it’s neccesary. In fact not all stores even accept tips. The casino venue I had under me didn’t accept them. And the Pentagon Starbucks don’t either and THAT is crazy busy and hard.
But about the military Dione comparing the Air Force to Marine Corps. infantry is no comparison at all. Your talking about a much higher standard of living and a MUCH shorter work week too. I never met an Air Force guy that spends weeks at a time in the wild eating things that would make normal people throw up. Even just training is days without food or sleep. Even if you take COMRATS (taking the money directly and just living off base) it’s still far less than minimum wage. And we don’t get discounts everywhere we go. When we go to the PX on base we get tax free goods, and yes some things are discounted elsewhere. But it’s a little hard to get a 10% discount when most of your time is being spent “Somewhere else” if you know what I mean. And otheriwse if you do accept the living costs they pay for it still comes out to 2$ an hour at the E-1 work if you put in 120 hours.
But then again Dionne maybe my comparison of being a server to something military is actually kind of unfair. It’s kind of a stretch to compare the two to begin with. I guess in the Marine Corps. it’s like any other “salary” paid job and we know what to expect before we sign up. My point i’m really getting at isn’t that servers don’t deserve a tip. It’s just the servers wage isn’t enough it shouldn’t be on the customer to do it. Not when every other job follows the same standards. Having a lower “tipped income hour wage” is complete bull. But it is that way and as long as the server get’s minmum wage at least I think it’s enough. Having the lower hourly wage just puts pressure on the consumer to pay labor costs out of pocket and it’s not right. It should be on the employer to do that like every other job.
But even if you are bumped up to minmum wage i’m not calling for people to stop tipping or anything, and I wouldn’t stop tipping myself. But saying that we need to tip a certain percentage because “it’s our custom” is really backwards. I’ve had cheap meals for 15 bucks where my server had to bust their behind while me and my friend sat their drinking coffee and demanding a lot extra, while i’ve had more expensive meals and all I asked the server to do was bring me my food. I don’t think percentage is the right thing.
That’s why if everybody made at least minmum wage the money would just be extra, even if it’s only 2 bucks. On a busy day it’s really feasible to swing 10 – 30 dolars in a hour (or more). But even if your tips add to only 5 dolars every hour that still is a huge pay bump… But the government screws you over with the wage laws (and the employer). But it is not the consumer screwing you over. I think it takes an asshole not to leave at least a small tip, but it doesn’t make them a bad person either, and the certainly aren’t doing anything wrong. It’s just not the customers responsibility to put servers above minmum wage (since servers do get minmum from the employer if they get no tips).
In reply to Ryan
I hope i didn’t offend you in any way. I was not trying to compare, IN ANY WAY, the military to serving. I have the utmost respect for anyone willing to sign up for military service, and enduring the conditions that you go through. The only thing i was refering to about tips is that, if we worked on minimum wage alone, there would be no way we could support our families, pay for housing, or medical bills. That’s where my reference to the military even came into play. Other than that, your job was, without question, entirely more demanding than ours. If we were to go to minimum wage without tips, all these people arguing about tipped employees would change their argument to all the people on government assistance, because we would be taking a huge pay cut. Like you said, $10-$30 an hour is easy to do. I don’t think the consumer should directly impact my wages in such a fashion, but they do. I am very grateful for the tips i do receive, because i do know they don’t have to leave one. And, i never complained that the system screws us over. I only tried to explain that tipping is the way it’s done here in america. If people don’t like it, don’t tip, don’t go out to eat, whatever. I, personally, am not upset with the system, my employer, or the government. I’m not even upset with the people on here making arguments against tipping. I make good money, i don’t wanna change the system. These people keep saying if you don’t like the way things are done lobby to change it. I honestly don’t think anyone on here that is, or has been, a server is upset at the system, i think they are more upset at the mindset of the people here that are against it. They wanna belittle us, and call us names because we defend what we do and how it’s done. Is our job hard? Definitely not, in comparison to some other professions (like yours). But, it is a job, and we do it everyday.
In reply to Brittney
First of all, i don’t know you, or anything about you. Nor would i presume to do so. But, just for the record, the coffee shop i worked at was very similar to where you worked. We had to do a lot of the same things. As a matter of fact, we did everything you mentioned, except go to the bank. And, we didn’t have a cart to help with the 25 pound bags of sugar we had to lug around. As for where i work now, it is a very busy place, locally owned, in a tourist hotspot. We do a lot of those same things there too. Not just roll silverware at the end of the night. I live in a very spring break oriented community, so we get to clean up after drunk college kids all day. We get to be bouncers at the expense of our own safety, and that of our coworkers and other patrons. Where i work now isn’t all peaches and flowers. Just like the coffee shop i worked for was just as grueling as the one you worked for. i am/was not trying to pick a fight or demean the job you did or do, i was just stating a fact about the majority of coffee shops i frequented in the travels around the world i have had the pleasure to visit. I, for one, am glad you got away from that place, because it sounds like the one i worked at, and that place was pure hell. Personally, i love my job, i wouldn’t trade it for anything in the world, and i have a masters degree. I have worked in some awful places, but like you, i hurried up and got outta there. I apologize if you thought i was trying to demean the job you did. That was not the case at all.
In reply to Wolf
And just to throw in the fact that you’re saying those things I listed are part of the JOB, I will also throw in that part of the job description is waiters will make below minimum wage and make up the rest in TIPS. So if you wanna get technical about what is entailed in the JOB DESCRIPTION, than uphold your part as the consumer “tipper” and maybe it would be fair to expect the waiter to uphold theirs.
In reply to Brittney
You keep evading the point I’ve made (and several others) that the employer pays you ATLEAST minimum wage no matter what. Regardless of tips. So your points are invalid.
“We have the notion “treat others how you want to be treated.” ”
REALLY!? Then why don’t you “TREAT OTHERS HOW YOU WANT TO BE TREATED” by tipping everyone you do business with?
What you’re saying sounds more like “Do as I say, not as I do.”
And your counter arguments to ours just show that you’re lazy and content with the status quo of your poor pay. You would rather continue a bad system and have others give hand outs to make up the difference instead of fighting for equality like many others have in various occupations.
Not tipping doesn’t make us ‘Cheap’. It shows that we’re not stupid enough to blindly follow some senseless custom. And it makes you an idiot and a beggar.
In reply to Wolf
Wolf, I’m simply going to say in the politest way possible that you sound like a complete moron and totally uneducated in your statements.
And very RARELY do the restaurants have to reach in their pockets to ensure their waitstaff is making above minimum wage, because people like you who DONT tip underpaid waiters represent minority. So obviously, you are the ones with the morale problems and apparently are too poor to eat out if you can’t afford to tip a couple dollars to someone who earned it.
My problem isn’t so much that the waitstaff won’t get their money, it’s that people like you and Bhagwad are trying to justify crappy reasons as to why you are above tipping someone AT ALL. And it’s because you’re CHEAP. Like it or not.
And you sound absolutely RIDICULOUS trying to justify my statement as “treat others how you want to be treated” as GIVE EVERYONE MONEY THEY DON’T NEED. Seriously Wolf? The majority of jobs are already compensated. WAITERS AREN’T (With the exception of Cali and other places where they assert minimum wage). If I had someone do me a service and make LESS than minimum wage, I WOULD tip that person, no matter the job. BUT THAT IS NOT THE CASE WITH EVERY JOB.
We would ALL love tips on top of making at or above minimum wage. But just because you DON’T tip someone who is making a livable wage already doesn’t apply to the saying “TREAT OTHERS HOW YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.”
Now if YOU were in the waiting industry, you would want someone to leave you a tip if you were serving them and doing your best to appease them and their needs, correct? Or would you rather work for free??? NO, you wouldn’t want to do that. You’d want that tip. Just like every other waiter wants a tip. Any tip is better than no tip. So treat others how you want to be treated!!!
And I DO tip my waiters, so I’m NOT saying “Do as I say, not as I do”
And let me CORRECT YOU my friend. I’m lazy and settling for poor pay. I’m not even a waitress!!! You don’t know my profession. You don’t know me to say that I’m “LAZY”. Check where on this blog I ever said I am currently a waitress and it’s MY living I’m defending. NO.
See, it’s a foreign idea to you and Bhagwad (who keep referring to ME as a waitress or in that perspective) that someone who isn’t directly affected by this problem would actually CARE. It’s not money out of my pocket that I’m losing when people don’t tip, I’m not a waitress. But I care about people and I know it’s their living. It’s how our economy functions.
YOU DONT PLAY WITH SOMEONES LIVELIHOOD. It’s being made to sound so nonchalant by you guys. “We don’t leave tips, so what, it’s not on the bill, it’s not being shoved down my throat, it’s not the law!” BUT YOU KNOWINGLY WOULD ACCEPT A WAITERS WORK KNOWING THEY RELY ON TIPS (I’m not talking about Cali here, so don’t even bring up Californias minimum wage).
It’ comes down to being a distasteful, uncaring human being. Period. And just because the majority of people tip, that doesn’t make up stupid. It makes us humane. The custom works.
And really it’s not even the no tip left that bothers me. It’s your attitude towards the waiters and your reasons for not tipping and poor attempts at justifying it, or at least TRYING to justify it while still defending that you are a good person in your soul.
You never heard the saying “Love thy neighbor as one loves thy self?” Well. I guess some people in this country are just selfish and don’t give a flying crap about anyone but themselves. And you and Bhagwad have made it clear you fit in that category.
It doesn’t MATTER if you don’t like how the system works, or what you think about how it SHOULD work. At the end of the day, you are contributing to hurting fellow American citizens. Not just hurting their livelihood, but their feelings.
You should both be ashamed of yourselves.
In reply to Brittney
Shame has no place in capitalism. Capitalism is about making profit, that is it.
Your wages mean nothing to me as a consumer. As a human being that is different, but we are not speaking about that are we?
My attitude? My attitude is that tipping is voluntary. As a voluntary means of compensating the servicemen, I therefore should possess the right to tip WHATEVER percentage I want.
“Foreign Idea?” There technically is no minimum wage in India. People make maybe $20 a week sometimes, you don’t see them complaining. Perhaps we should begin the same thing here:
Abolish minimum wage
Abolish wage regulation
Abolish work regulations
let people work as they please. Lets not let big brother tell me how much I can make.
In reply to Brittney
Calling someone “cheap” is the easiest way to rob people by emotionally guilting them into giving you money. You use the word “cheap” as if it’s some kind of logical retort. It’s not. It’s just an emotional scream that has complete irrelevance.
What does “cheap” mean anyway? And how is it relevant?
OK inflation–math time
in the 1990s, tipping was 15%.
A dish in teh 1990s was, say $10. So 15% of $10 is $1.50
OK 2013.
NYC: 25% tip is now asked.
Now that same dish is $25 dollars. Therefore the tip has increased outside of the inflation rate. a 25% tip on a $25 dish is almost $6!!!!!! That is a little more than a 500% increase on the wait staff’s part.
Are you kidding me Valerie?
Again, this is capitalism. Social ills should not, and will not, affect the consumer. He/she can always buy elsewhere.
I live here in California. Since wait staff earn minimum wage, it does not affect me whether I tip or not in the state. If I do leave the state (which is rare), I will add a larger tip.
Not tipping is apart of fiscal responsibility. Tipping itself is VOLUNTARY, so I, as the consumer, can tip at my discretion–10%, 50%, pi%, 1.2345750319248%, 11%.
I’m a customer. I want my food. I don’t care about your income. talk to the government.
Valerie, you tell me to talk to the government. I really don’t care. Its not my job. In my early 20s I was already making more than the average American. I’m content. If you are unhappy with your wages, YOU talk to the government.
Unless there is a tipping policy CLEARLY stated at the restaurant, I can tip at my discretion.
DOn’t bring up the “shit bag” argument. If you go to Iraq or Afghanistan, I can tell you that they think 100% of Americans are shit bags. You thinking that I’m a shit bag is arbitrary and subjective.
I’m a customer. Your social ills concern me not. For all I care, you can be suffering from scurvy, anoemia, pneumonia all while being a single mother with 10 children living in the Crenshaw district of Los Angeles in a 300 square foot government project house. All I want is my food.
I’m sure Valerie will quote my words above so let me continue: does that sound harsh? Absolutely, but guess what, this is how capitalism works. Capitalism cannot gurantee all of its people to be wealthy, however the system makes it much easier to gain wealth.
For example, a waiter can easily leave his job and become a…WAL MART CASHIER IF THEY ARE PAID SO MUCH HIGHER.
In reply to Common Sense
I’m telling you to talk to the government because you asked me why auto-grat cannot be included. That’s a question for them.
Other countries think we are shit-bags because of the way we invade them, kill them from the sky with drones and pose with their civilian dead bodies. Has nothing to do with what we’re talking about.
I already know that you don’t care about anyone’s well being. You said that already. Bhagwad states “customers don’t care” but what he really means is HE doesn’t care, because I’ve seen plenty of customers who do.
Again, please simplify your argument to the single fact that you’re cheap and you don’t care rather than going off on tangents about the Soviet Union or Wal Mart. Because that is what it boils down to.
I make money just fine. And I actually, really enjoy what I do. Aside from ruffling feathers on the internet for fun, I also like to try and educate the public about tipped wage employees. Some people honestly don’t know what it’s all about. And then there are people like you, who just don’t care. And that’s fine, I know I can’t change your mind and I don’t care to, either.
In reply to Valerie
No, i don’t need to talk to the government. I only suggested Auto-Grat as somewhat of a compromise. But i’m happy with the current system. I’m not legally obliged to pay a tip, so that is fine with me. BTW I live in California, so wait staff have no right to TIPS in the first place.
Cheap? I call it fiscally responsible, unlike the vast majority of Americans. I pay only what I am required to pay, how is that cheap?
Soviet Union–made everyone have a fair wage share
Wal mart–minimum wage. Perhaps if the wait staff only receive $2.13/hour in Georgia, they should work at Wal Mart for $10/hour. Doesn’t it make economic sense?
How are these tangents? (sin/cos=tan?)
I’m the public, Valerie, yet I live in California. Why do I need to tip if the staff already make minimum wage?
Lets put it in simple terms so you can understand. Wait staff make as much money as a Wal Mart cashier in California, HOWEVER ,wait staff then receive additional grauity capital as a result of tips, while Wal Mart cashiers do not. Where is the justice?
It seems that you are manipulating my talking points in order to serve your interest and to enact a sense of superiority over the rest of us “non tippers.” Typical “pro tip” mentality. In terms of tipping, the US has become somewhat of a dictatorship. It seems that people that don’t tip are worse than people that, say, commit murder. I mean what gives?
You are right, i really don’t care about your wages at a restaurant. As far as minimum wage is concerned, it is WAY inflated already. As long as you are getting paid, it is not my responsibility. Minimum wage should be abolished, but that is for another discussion. Americans are already WAY too entitled, especially with their wages. Tipping is a symbol of that sense of this. We currently live in the Entitled States of America and these “pro tip” arguments solidify this.
Question for Bhagwad! Just out of curiousity..
In your 4th bullet point, you note that just bringing the food is not worthy of being paid extra. So, my question is, do you tip bartenders? (If applicable) A bartender is creating something for you (mixed cocktails) rather than merely bringing a completed product to you.
Also, just a side note.. Many waiters and waitresses actually do make portions of your meal themselves. At the diner that waitress is toasting and buttering your bread. At a lot of restaurants, they require wait staff to prepare desserts and sometimes salads. Just a quick note.
Curious about the bar thing though! And also hibachi, since the chef is preparing your food for you on the spot.
In reply to Valerie
I don’t drink, so I have no idea what the whole thing is like. Never had a drink mixed for me.
But there are plenty of restaurants where the food is made right in front of you. The guy comes over and makes it with all the ingredients etc. The cost of everything is included in the bill so I don’t pay anything extra.
In reply to Valerie
what if you go to Home Depot, and the paint mixer, who may be on minimum wage, is also mixing your paint and doing the work for you?
Again, in California, wait staff make minimum wage. Some entry level home depot associates at the paint area also make minimum wage, yet they are not tipped.
I don’t drink either, therefore it doesn’t apply to me.
Remember, I’m the customer and the customer is always right.
You do realize if you just showed compassion to those around you and showed that you’re not heartless towards your fellow citizen trying to make a living, you wouldn’t be called cheap.
You’re cavalier, selfish attitude is why you are being called such a thing. Saving 5 bucks to you is worth more than the feelings of those who serve you.
This whole blog was degrading to servers, and presented a disrespectful attitude towards them. They are simply doing their job trying to make a living. And you don’t like how the system works, or you see a loophole or flaw in it, so you take it out on the waiter? It’s not right.
Why should someone care about you being robbed emotionally in being called “cheap” when you obviously don’t give 2 damns about anyone else around you? Do you realize how many people you rob emotionally when they give you exceptional service and you don’t tip? Do you realize how many people you rob economically when you take up 1 of their 5 tables in their section for an hour and don’t tip? That table could’ve belonged to someone else who WOULD have. You hurt people all the time, and the words in your “5 reasons” blog were all very hurtful and degrading towards waiters.
But as usual, it’s all about you. You, the consumer who thinks you’re entitled to free service just because they don’t throw the bill in your face.
Cheap is relevant, because it’s what you are. You are selfish and you are cheap. I’m not calling you cheap to “guilt” you into anything. I’m stating it as a fact. Everything you’ve said and every case you’ve presented as to why you don’t tip boils down to the fact that you know the system works this way, you know the income of a waiter on average is 2-4 dollars per hour, you take up their time and service, you take away their opportunity to serve someone else who WILL tip, and frankly, you don’t give a damn.
You are selfish. You only care about yourself and what benefits you. You’d rather cling onto a few bucks than be conscience of the world around you and the people around you working to make their living. That makes you cheap and a pretty crappy person.
In reply to Brittney
Oh I don’t mind being called cheap. I don’t care. I brought it up because I don’t see how it helps your argument in any way. The question is whether or not servers should be tipped. You calling me cheap is irrelevant either for or against the argument.
So I don’t know how to respond to such an illogical statement. Hence I asked you to explain it. Which you still haven’t.
In reply to bhagwad
At what part did I not explain it? I thought I explained it rather thoroughly. I said your cheap and selfish, and have crappy character.
The system may be flawed, but so is your morale. Period.
In reply to Brittney
You didn’t explain it because you failed to show how calling me “cheap” is in anyway either an endorsement or a refutation of whether or not waiters should receive tips.
The point under discussion is “Should waiters receive tips?” Bringing in the “cheap” card is irrelevant to that question. It’s what we call an ad hominem fallacy.
So I’m very curious as to where this is going.
In reply to bhagwad
Ive explained numerous times why waiters should receive their tips.
Me calling you cheap was a side point. I was simply stating that THAT is the true reason why you don’t tip.
Not the 5 points you put in this blog.
It all comes down to the fact that your conscience is in hibernation mode and you’re too cheap to pay for services you utilize, even though you understand that it is American custom.
That makes you cheap,
I never stated that you being cheap was an endorsement or refutation to why or why not waiters should be tipped.