It never fails to shock me how a tip is demanded in the US. People simply refuse to listen to reason when we (yes, there are others!) tell them that leaving a tip isn’t necessary. Well, I’m hoping for too much here, but if you’re a waiter, here are 5 reasons why I will try my best not to give any money to you and why the reasons for tipping are crappy.
1. You act as if you’re my best friend
Just leave me alone ok? I don’t want to bloody chit chat with you. I want food. FOOD! Get it? It’s a restaurant. I go there to eat. I go because I want either Italian food, Chinese Food or something else which I can’t get in a McDonald’s. So I come to a restaurant to fulfill my cravings for it. I will pay for what I value – food. Not you.
Christ, you offend me – kneeling down next to my table, pretending to like me and chatting as if you’re my best friend when it’s obvious that all you’re after is the tip! I’m not a bloody money bag you know. I will pay the bill which includes the cost of the food, the environment and the salaries of the people involved – nothing more.
The only way to get money out of me that I don’t have to legally pay is by prying it out of my cold dead hands…
Bottom line: I don’t want to know your name, or interact with you for any longer than I have to in order to place my order. As far as I’m concerned, you’re the equivalent of a conveyor belt that brings me my food and a computer into which I input my order. Of course, I won’t be rude. But don’t expect me to interact with you any more than I would with some stranger.
Image Credit: cafemama
2. You don’t get paid enough
And this is my problem how exactly? It’s astonishing that customers are expected to make up for your employer’s cheapness in not paying you a decent wage. Please include the full cost in everyone’s bill thank you very much. I’ll pay it because I have to and the charge is there for me to see.
What’s really funny here is that no one seems to criticize the employers! All criticism is reserved for non tipping customers instead of the owners of the restaurant for not paying a decent wage. Wtf! Could it possibly be because you guys know you can make much more by tips and under report your income to the IRS?
3. You’ll spit in my food if I don’t tip you?
And I’ll shoot your kid if you don’t give me a million dollars. Seriously, am I even hearing this right? You’re actually using the threat of blackmail to make me pay you? Well as long as you’re openly claiming to be a criminal it’s all right I guess.
Fortunately that’s why I prefer buffets. Listen apart from it being illegal, this shows your poor integrity. But if you spit in someone’s food because they didn’t give you money you didn’t earn, then you’re a loser and deserve to be a waiter for the rest of your life.
4. Bringing me my food isn’t worthy of being paid extra
Did you cook it? Did you invent it? No. You picked it up and brought it to me. While it might not be easy, there are plenty of jobs which are much worse – shop floor workers for example. And I’ve been a shop floor manager, so I know. Face it – compared to other jobs, being a waiter is unskilled. You get paid what the market will think your services are worth. You don’t deserve more for your work over and above what your employer should pay you.
5. Money doesn’t grow on trees
I expect you to be grateful and pray for me at night if I tip you 10%. Be happy I gave you anything at all. I worked for the money in my wallet and by giving you some I didn’t have to, I’m doing you a favor. Learn to remember that when people give you something they don’t need to, it’s a favor. You don’t complain that they didn’t give you more!
By the way, the same thing above applies to all professions that demand tips including those on cruise liners.
So now that you understand why I won’t give you money you don’t deserve, stop with the “oh how could you?” attitude. I can. And I will.
Update: Here’s a rebuttal of the many silly justifications for tipping that people have given in the comments section.
Common, please, stfu about California. You missed the most important part of what you just said “make minimum wage”. I’m not even going to bother responding to you anymore, as you’re clearly off your rocker.
Bhagwad, I wouldn’t assume that everything is included in the cost. The chef may very well be considered a “tipped employee” also.
Anyway, it’s been real. One thing is for sure, the custom of tipping in the United States sure is complex and not without backlash. I just wanted to come here and spread my knowledge of the industry first hand. I will just say that in current times, tips have certainly become more of a necessity and not an option. Yet, it is still very optional. You have every right not to partake, but also the rest of the nation has every right to look down on you. Sorry, that’s the way it is.
In reply to Valerie
I’ve never minded people looking down on me. That’s their problem. Doesn’t change the facts of the matter either way.
In reply to Valerie
Don’t be hatin’ Cali, lol hahahah
Valerie–if you don’t like how it is in California, that isn’t my problem, lol.
So Valerie, next time I get hassled at a restaurant (i did again last night), I will use this blog and use YOUR name as to why I don’t need to tip here in California.
Please don’t use such foul language (ie st…u). It is very unbecoming ;)
Yall can call me cheap too. Calling me cheap is simply attacking my character, not the topic at hand–tipping. The fact that low blows are thrown at me also proves that the “pro tipping” party simply has nothign to say. Economically it doesn’t make sense.
There is a great restaurant in San Diego called the Cutlery. All the wait staff make $10/hour and tips are FORBIDDEN. The food prices remain comparable to other restaurants (ie $9/burger for example) so why is it that the Cutlery can make it work, but others don’t? I personally do not care, since I don’t have to tip anyways here in California, per Brittney and Valerie, but why can’t other restaurants do the same?
Seems that I’ve ruffled some feathers as well, eh Valerie?
Looking down on us? Well a lot of people looked down on Steve Jobbs, Bill Gates, etc etc etc etc for whatever reason (maybe even tipping) and, well you see where i’m going with this (michael jordan is considered a “low tipper”). A bunch of pawns looking down on me serves no purpose. I stand by my principles and no one, including you Valerie can change that.
Bon Apetite!
In reply to Common Sense
It’s mighty funny to me that you would even mention Micheal Jordan in your post saying that he is considered a “low tipper”. At least he DOES tip.
Brittney,
From what I am reading, your just like valerie in that you continue to denigrate people do not subscribe to your forced bribery and racketeering schemes called “tipping”. Let me ask you: what is different from giving a vendor a “tip” in order to continue having long term contracts with that vendor versus giving a “tip” to someone working in restaurants. In the case of the vendor it is called bribery. Plain and simple.
To me, people who work in restaurants or other industries that seemingly demand “tips” are just middlemen in continuing this justification for this extortion racket on consumers. They are also just strangers. I don’t have any interest in them. They are just to do their job that they were supposed to do and that is it. Stop your whining and acting like a crybaby. And how can I rob someone “emotionally”. That shows you will go to extreme lengths to show you have no argument. And I don’t expect the service to be free because it should be both an indirect cost as well as a direct labor cost reflected in my bill.
I wouldn’t be surprised if you supported a law forcing people to tip restaurant workers 50%. Then if we oppose “but you don’t care about them”.
In reply to Dan
wow dan, good point with the vendor. This is done in the sciences ALL OF THE TIME. Even though it is technically illegal, it is done.
50% tip is coming: check it out:
70s–spare change
80s–10%
90s–15%
2000s-20%
2010s (NYC)–25%
What’s next?????
Remember, food prices increase based on inflation. So it isn’t like burgers at restaurants have not changed in terms of their price.
It seems wait staff aren’t too great at mathematics now, are they?
In reply to Dan
See… I was going to reply, but the ignorance of what you just said has left me speechless.
At what point did I say I’d ever support tipping 50%. And you say that IIIII have no point and am going to extreme lengths to show I have no argument? Sounds like what you’re doing.
LOL and you dare say I denigrate those who do not tip. The definition being “Criticize Unfairly”??? Are you really saying that? Someone who uses someone service while KNOWING that they live off of tips for their service? You know this and still don’t give a shit, Talk about UNFAIR.
Nothing about me calling people who belittle waiters and cheat them cheap and cold hearted is denigrating.
Your actions are the reason why you are being called what you are.
For anyone to even say that I’m trying to guilt someone into tipping by saying these things is ridiculous. I KNOW your opinions will never change, because you are selfish and only care about yourself and your own benefit. You can’t change someone like that. I’m simply stating it as it is.
Is the system always the best or logical? NO. I’ve said that time after time. But your distaste for it doesn’t excuse you for being a bad person.
It goes far beyond the fact that you don’t tip. It’s your attitude about it. It’s that you know how the system works and you know waiters rely on tips, and you still waste their time and service and dont even leave a few bucks. That is a cold thing to do. Just state upfront that you aren’t going to tip so that you can get the adequate service you deserve on part of the service.
And seriously you’re being so naive. People whining and acting like cry babies? THIS IS PEOPLES LIVES WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. It’s their jobs, it’s their livelihood, their way of making money! I only hope one day you fall in the position where you rely on tips to survive and it’s the country’s norm, and people stiff you. You can think whatever you want of the waitstaff or what position they hold in the transition between the restaurant and you, but at the end of the day, their service to you is their source of income.
You know this, you don’t care… So, you are a jackass. Point blank period.
And where you come up with vendors and bribery, I don’t know. Paying someone for their service isn’t a bribe. And if someone has to guilt you into leaving a couple bucks, you’ve obviously got some social moral issues.
Why even eat out if you’re THAT strapped for money that you can’t even leave ANYTHING?
This conversation is going nowhere. Your justifications are all crap and you are on the wrong end of the social spectrum. You can say the majority is wrong for tipping, but at the end of the end, the tippers are doing what is right on their part and being caring to the people who’s service they are using. Tippers aren’t the problem.
But for all I care, keep being heartless. Karma always comes back around and you and Bhagwad will all eventually get yours. All I’m saying is simply stop giving BS justifications for why you are being such a cold person. The system isn’t perfect, but you really aren’t helping the cause by being a dick.
In reply to Brittney
Karma–doesn’t truly exist, does it? We are speaking rationally and secularly.
“Being a (explitive)?” Well, a lot of sucessful leaders and rulers were considered “dicks” so i’d rather not be apart of the masses.
“System is not perfect?” Its YOUR system. I just enjoy it once in a while when I dine out. I”m not the one getting ripped off. You do something about it.
These debates should only be on the economical, legal, and rational aspects of tipping. Not the “humanistic” aspects. If we were discussing humanism, then EVERYONE in America should be receiving the same wages, simply because it is the “compassionate” the “fair” and the “good” thing to do, right?
Being a bad person? isn’t that subjective? Brittney, who are you to determine who a “good” or “bad” person is?
You know villains in the movies? We see them as bad people, but do you think they TRULY think they are bad? If anything, they see the hero as the villain, whereas they see themselves as a hero? its all subjective.
This is WHY we don’t discuss humanism in such debates. Its subjective.
Lets take an example. The US has a minimum wage. Norway does not. Does this make Norway a bad country? Does this mean Norweigans are bad people?
It’s also mighty funny to me that people bring up California. Tipping is done in every state, not just California. California is one state out of FIFTY. Here’s the thing, the reason why tipping is what it is, it’s because when it first started, that was a way for restaurants to keep a low overhead, so the restaurant makes more money. Now that inflation has gotten where it has, everything else has gone up too (i.e. tip percentage). And, for those of you who can’t figure it out, servers in California make more per hour because of said inflation. The cost of living is higher there than most other places. You don’t tip a server because you are giving away free money, you do it because their income is nominal to other professions.
Now, that being said, for those of you who apparently think someone serving you is beneath you, please, let me enlighten you just a little. First of all, there is a level of expectation involved in everything you do. You know what that expectation is when you go out to eat. Second, you do engage the business of the server, not just the restaurant, or you would be at McDonalds. Third, a tip is not free money. Someone has done you a service, you pay them for said service, not a hard concept to understand. Think about it this way, instead of using Walmart employees, let’s use this one. You need an oil change on your car. You take it to the shop. The auto shop puts, oh, let’s say, Pennzoil motor oil in your car. The auto shop doesn’t make the oil, but they provided you with the service of changing your oil, so you pay them, whatever their percentage mark-up is. When you pay that bill, you are paying them for the oil, AND for the service of changing it. Essentially, you are tipping the auto shop for providing you with a service. The only difference is, there is a black-and-white statement of what the tip is.
And, another thing, servers aren’t beggars. They don’t beg you for money. They provide you with a service, then hope you are kind enough to show a little gratitude for that service. A person standing on the side of the road with a sign asking for money is a beggar, because they don’t provide you with a service. Call it what you want, not tipping someone because it doesn’t fit your low moral standard isn’t a positive thing. It is the way of the economy in America. Is it a perfect system? Certainly not! But, it is the one YOU live in. Accept it, live with it, or move. Honestly, the only people i hear doing any kind of crying about this, are the people who don’t wanna tip. (Why do I have to tip? It’s not fair!) That’s what I’m hearing. You sound like my seven-year old. (Why do I have to go to bed? It’s not fair!).
In reply to dionne
Bravo! You’ve said in one reply what I’ve been saying in numerous replies.
Even the comparison to the oil change. But I’ve figured out that it’s pointless to waste your breath trying to explain to these guys how and why the system works this way. At the end of the day, they don’t care that the waiter is not tipped, or doesn’t make their income. They only care about themselves.
But you hit every point dead on. Just know, they will never agree or see it this way. They will continue to come up with poor excuses and justifications for their heartless and immoral actions.
In reply to dionne
You have no idea how business works.
Your brilliant little ‘oil’ argument works against you. The shop is the equivalent to a restaurant, the oil is the food, the shop didn’t produce the oil in house, but the restaurant didn’t grow and pick the produce either. The service they are performing is what you pay for on your bill and it includes the cost of the product. In a restaurant, it’s that same, the service of making and bringing you the food is what is payed for in the bill, along with the food cost.
You wouldn’t pay for just the oil (food), then pay the shop worker separate for changing the oil (bringing the food). So NO, you are not essentially “tipping” the auto-shop for an oil change. That shop is an independent business that has no relation whatsoever with the oil company.
And Brittney, you’re seriously clueless.
You keep saying that it’s ‘peoples lives!!!’. They get ATLEAST minimum wage regardless! The ONLY reason they’re crying about not getting tipped is because the only way they’ll get above minimum wage is by handouts. That makes them LAZY. If minimum wage isn’t enough for you(not specifically you), and there is no upward mobility in your current occupation, then you need to find a new job. PERIOD.
Answer me this. If they’re not lazy and content with the status quo, then why is it too much trouble for them to fight for good pay instead of guilt tripping others for handouts? Many successful movements have happened over conditions much worse than (getting minimum wage regardless) this. They need to get it into gear and fight for what they want instead of panhandling for it.
In reply to Wolf
All of your anger should be directed at your employer, not anyone else. You being upset at customers who don’t tip shows that you’re letting your employer, who is screwing you out of decent pay, off the hook.
The EMPLOYER is the one screwing you, not the customer.
In reply to Wolf
Okay, smarty-pants, I don’t know how business works, then tell me this. I make $63,000 a year AS A SERVER, most of my coworkers make that or more. There are 50 servers total at my restaurant. Let’s just say, conservatively, my employer pays everyone $50,000 a year. He would be paying out $2.5 million dollars just to the service staff alone. That’s not including the cooks, bartenders, bussers, and hosts. Now, take that all the way across the country. Even at half that, employers would lose millions of dollars. And you don’t think prices would go up? I pretty sure that’s simple business logic even you could understand. Most servers make more than minimum wage, that’s why they wait tables. And, for the record, i have two degrees in business, along with an associates, bachelors, and masters degrees in computer science. I’m pretty sure I have a good idea about how business works.
In reply to dionne
Oh, and did i forget to mention, it’s not the fact that servers want free money. That’s not the complaint. The problem is, that waiting tables gives the customer the chance to show appreciation directly to the person doing the work they do. Not getting tipped is like me telling you that you suck at your job.
In reply to dionne
Good for you, you’re a professional beggar! 63 grand a year on handouts.
And you didn’t give a direct rebuttal to my counterargument, therefore you concede.
In reply to Wolf
What i don’t understand is why is it such a big deal to throw down $2, $3, or $5. When it comes down to it, if the employer put an automatic gratuity on the bill, almost every post i’ve seen against tipping was all about that, you would still be tipping, and i would still make the same money. The only difference is that it would already be on the bill. That in itself already kills any argument against tipping. Everyone against tipping says ‘go to the government, fight for minimum wage’. The tip system is already in place. Why should we change it? We aren’t screaming for change, you are. If we all did, we would be taking a pay cut. I guarantee all servers, if they are good, are making more than minimum wage. It would be kinda like you going to your boss and saying ‘hey, you know what, i’m not happy with my salary. Why don’t you cut my pay in half for next year’. Sounds kinda dumb, doesn’t it?
Honestly, i never came on this blog to explain why tipping should be acceptable. I came on here to explain to you that tipping is the way it is. Tip or don’t tip, i personally don’t care. The people that come into my restaurant don’t have to tip me, but they do. Because i am good at my job! If you want to call me a beggar, that’s totally ok with me. I will still make 60+ thousand a year. As a beggar. It doesn’t hurt my feelings at all that you would call me that, because i’m still gonna go to work, and i’m still gonna make my money. And, besides, i truly think you don’t even know the definition of the word beggar. A person asks for money that performs no service in return. That’s the definition. I perform a service, therefore i am not a beggar by definition. So you continue to talk about how tipping shouldn’t be done. Continue to not tip. It actually makes no difference to me. I’m not trying to justify why it should or shouldn’t be done, i’m just saying that it is custom in america, just like weddings, celebrating birthday parties, or christmas. There’s no law saying you have to do those either, but those aren’t customs you are willing to give up because you benefit from those. How’s that for a concession.
In reply to dionne
And, for the record, i, personally am not mad at anybody. Not you, not Bhagwad, not anyone. You are completely entitled to your opinion. I respect that. Oh wait, i am angry at one person regarding this whole bit, and that’s Dan. And, that’s only because he feels being profane is the way to get a point across. Personally, i feel it’s a way to show ignorance. If we can’t debate civilly, then there’s no point to your argument, because you’re being an immature child.
In reply to dionne
With a gratuity system in place and you earning minimum wage like everyone else, you would never earn 63 grand a year. Who are you trying to fool huh? This is exactly why we need to do away with the tipping BS so that your kind can’t cheat customers out of their money by guilt tripping them – money which you simply don’t deserve. $5 for just bringing my food to the table, yeah right… Some of you even earn more than the chefs who do all the hard work and you have the nerve to come out here and bitch.
And please keep insulting everyone here. You are only showing yourself up to the world what kind of server you really are, a server who acts like the customer’s best friend if tipped well and acts like a total foul mouthed bitch when they don’t.
In reply to Andy
Wow! Again with the profanities! Why can’t any of you so-called intelligent, non-tipped, non-tipping people come at someone without reverting to neanderthal use of language? Just goes to show you how much of an idiot you people really are when it comes discussion, regardless of the topic. It’s ok though, i’m pretty much done with you people anyway. I like intelligent debates.
In reply to Andy
Oh, and, by the way, if my hourly income went up, along with a gratuity system in place, i would make the same, if not more, because i would actually be getting paychecks, and they wouldn’t all be going to pay taxes on my tips.
In reply to Wolf
And, for the record, i, personally am not mad at anybody. Not you, not Bhagwad, not anyone. You are completely entitled to your opinion. I respect that. Oh wait, i am angry at one person regarding this whole bit, and that’s Dan. And, that’s only because he feels being profane is the way to get a point across. Personally, i feel it’s a way to show ignorance. If we can’t debate civilly, then there’s no point to your argument, because you’re being an immature child.
In reply to dionne
I don’t know what servers make $60k come on…I do very well as a server but $20k is a little more accurate average.
In reply to Wolf
No you are clueless. Most servers get paid about 2.35/hr their checks are literally ZERO dollars, with asterisk next to the state, social sec, etc. taxes that were taken out which indicate that the server did not make enough to cover what needs to be taken out! We basically receive a “you owe us” (the irs) statement. The people that do this job ARE not beneath you, many choose this job so they can be home raising their children (so they don’t grow up to be ignorant self loathing people like you) instead of paying for costly day care also. Your server did”chatting” with you is not the same as begging! Are you so socially awkward and paranoid that you can’t engage in small chit chat? You are clueless and just a horrible person, I hope someday karma kicks you in the ass.
Dionne,
I think you are one heck of a potty mouth and a complete illiterate. If you don’t know how business works, shut your little cock sucking ass up about costs. And yes, I believe that servers just ask for free money and are entitled bitches. Tell me, why should I give a bigger tip because I ordered a $50 veal chop versus a $25 chicken breast. The line cooks and the chef prepare it. The waiter didn’t prepare it. All that they did was bring to my table after it was ready.
Did you see Mr. Pink commenting on tipping in Reservoir Dogs? I think it is spot on. Don’t you understand that tipping screws waitstaff because they have to share their tips? If I give a tip, they aren’t going to keep it plus whatever taxes are taken out of it. It is a scam. If I tip, I am just encouraging this entrenched system, which you seem to be only to giddy. Go ahead, just say here that you along with Valerie and Brittany that your religion is the church of tipping, racketeering and propaganda.
I will show gratitude if I felt the service was truly outstanding. So far, I haven’t been to many restaurants where the service is truly “outstanding”. Then I will give a little something. But you have a corrupt manifestation deep inside you. End of story.
In reply to Dan
Ok, here it is you dumbass fuck, i don’t ask for shit from my tables. Nor do i expect a tip if i were to give shitty service, which i never do, because i take pride in my job! You are a fucking moron, and should be castrated so you can’t give offspring, and produce any more idiots. This is the first time i have ever used foul language in response to any of these posts, and it will be the last, because i refuse to respond to any more of your ignorance. And, for the record, call it what you want, but i still make more money than you as an ‘entitled bitch’, and i will be ok with that coming from a complete fucking fool like you!
In reply to Dan
“Did you see Mr. Pink commenting on tipping in Reservoir Dogs? ”
Yep. “Nevermind what you normally do, just cough in your goddamn buck like everyone else”. It’s amazing how people on both sides of the fence see this particular scene as working in their favor to back their cause.
I think they also cut off a guy’s ear in that movie. Any other life lessons you’ve taken from fictional cinema?
I think you missed the point of what we are saying regarding tips. If you give us a tip, we are going to keep it. Atleast a good percentage.
It’s true…my boyfriend is a sous chef and I’m pretty sure I average more money than him. He also gets other perks like paid vacation, paid sick time, affordable health care, and a life insurance policy. Not trying to play a violin, but it’s a trade-off.
I don’t “pander” to my guests. I laugh with them, I talk with them, I ask them how things are going. If they don’t engage me in conversation, I don’t either.
I really think that your off the wall buzz words are hilarious though. “corrupt manifestation”? lol. It’s already been said that maybe the system isn’t perfect or ideal, but we play the game..because it’s how we are able to make money.
So, we already know that Bhagwad is a writer (charging .04 cents per word and having wasted about a million dollars responding to us, lol). But what is it that you do for a living Dan? Wolf? “Common Sense”? Andy?
In reply to Dan
And how exactly would you say it was outstanding? As our ignorant friend pointed out in his ridiculous 5 reasons he doesn’t even want to be looked at! Some people want to be talked to, some want you to entertain them, some want you to be seen and not heard. The server has to be”feel” out and please all these different personality types as part of their job. including jerks like you. the server did not decide this is how they want to be paid, trust me most would rather have a paycheck than rely on jerks like you.
Dionne,
Don’t respond to my so called “ignorance” then but all the things that you say “fucking moron”, “dumbass fuck” apply to you much more than me. You don’t take pride in your job because you wouldn’t be giving good service if you didn’t get that forced cultural norm called “the tip”.
As I have said before, you represent the worst of american society and your religion is the church of tipping, racketeering, and Propaganda. You are an entitled corrupt elitist. Tell me and you still haven’t answered my question, why do I have to give you a bigger tip because I ordered a more expensive dish. Or you can’t answer that because tipping is stacked up against consumers and you know it is an extortion scheme. And you write so terribly to boot!
If this exchange is giving you blood pressure, then get out of here. I am amused by all of your immature comments along with others here who are idol worshipers to the church of tipping racketeering and propaganda. Bhagwad will always be right about tipping and just face it. Maybe there are some smart people who realize the scheme that you and your fellow waiters try to impose is like trying to think that everybody is an ATM when they are not.
In reply to Dan
I’m thinking the tip percentage based on the food total was probably a good way to gauge amount of work done by a server at some point in time. E.G.: a family of four will spend more on food than a couple.
However, with the prices of some dishes in restaurants in modern times, it might not be the best way to gauge. I had a similar conversation with some co-workers a few years back about someone ordering a rare vintage bottle of wine ($300) versus our house bottle ($35). Should that person tip 20% on the bottle price? I still don’t know how to feel about it. Other than, if you’re gonna flaunt your money so much to order extravagantly, keep it coming.
In reply to Dan
Tipping restaurant workers simply is unfair. Why? Again, other minimum wage workers aren’t tipped.
Dionne–the fact that you make $63 K as a wait staff member is EXACTLY why you are pro tip–the status quo allows you to make well over minimum wage. If tips were forbidden and you didn’t make minimum wage, you wouldn’t bring home even half of that amount.
Thank goodness i’m in california. This malarkey simply doesn’t make sense.
In reply to Common Sense
leave it to the entitled, ultra left children of America to bankrupt her people and lead the masses astray. Sure, tipping is somewhat of a small deal, but this entitlement culture will lead us to be destroyed within our very own fortress walls.
Minimum wage–abolish it.
Wage regulation–abolish it
Job regulation–abolish those as well.
Let the market dictate pay. Let the market dictate how much you are worth.
In reply to Common Sense
I, actually agree with a lot of the points about tipping that you guys are arguing about. It’s really not a fair system from a consumer point of view. But, that’s not the complaint that most servers have. It’s more of a respect value. If you like the way someone does a job, even though there is someone who does it cheaper, but worse, your willing to pay the difference. How’s that really any different? A car salesman has the right to dictate car prices based on his commission. But, nobody is upset about that. It’s not being entitled, or thinking that we deserve more, that we are talking about about. It’s the lack of common courtesy that some people have in view of our profession. And, it’s like i said on a previous post, why should we fight to change how the system is, you’re absolutely correct, it does work to our advantage. There’s no denying that. If i didn’t, or only made, minimum wage, i certainly would be doing what i spent eight years getting a master’s degree for.
All that being said, i do believe that government regulations should not play a part in how one is paid for the job they do. The only problem i see with taking that out of the equation is some people (the ones who do feel entitled) would create more issues.You don’t have to believe me when i say that i don’t feel superior, or entitled, nor do i whine or cry about my tips. At what i make a year, i don’t have to. The thing i don’t get is, everybody keeps bringing up minimum wage. Some states actually pay more than minimum wage to servers. For example, i have friends that work in Las Vegas, and some of them make $15 plus tips. Some friends in Miami that make $13 plus tips. People seem to think that serving is only a minimum wage job, but it isn’t. I’m not going to argue as to why it should be done with the whole sob story of ‘i only make $2 an hour’ crap’, as server you know that going in. All i believe is, you know that going out to eat is involves tipping. Why argue that fact?
In reply to Common Sense
Oh, and, by the way, thank you for stating an opinion without the use of vulgarities and personal attacks. It shows that you are an intelligent human being, and worth listening to.
In reply to dionne
that’s fine dionne, but no vulgarities. The thing is, wait staff are much like other Americans–they feel entitled.
let me give you a parallel example. The Prison Guard union in the United States is one of the strongest unions. Their shift begins at the very moment their car enters the parking lot. It takes a good 45 minutes for the guards to travel from the parking lot to the actual prison and start work (ie change, etc). So 90 minutes of their time out of 8 hours is used just to, well walk.
This is the entitlement culture. Rather than compromise of, say the guards starting work when they enter the building, they fought so they would clock in AT THE GATE.
We all feel this way. When something affects us positively, we won’t fight to change that, will we? This is the same thing with wait staff and tips. Tips are not legally required for anyone in the US to pay (unless their is a clear tipping policy stated at the restaurant), however the wait staff feel no need to fight this status quo simply because staff members, such as you, can make upwards to around $30/hour. The labor department defines waitressing as “unskilled labor” since no technical requirements are necessary (such as a welder or an engineer). So with that in mind, wait staff members are one of the highest paid members in the unskilled labor market.
So now that we’ve estabilshed that wait staff members feel incredibly entitled to their tipping in the ESA (entitled states of america), i feel no need to have to fulfill this entitlement and go along with the status quo.
It isn’t a question of compassion or karma, it is a question about economics and entitlement.
Think of it this way, tipping is an entitlement such as social security etc. However, there is NO legal obligation for me to fulfill this entitlement. In terms of sheer capitalism, it also doesn’t make sense either.
Still waiting to hear what the rest of you do for a living.
In reply to Valerie
I’m a Research Scientist (Mol Bio). Started in food manufacturing and ended up in IVD (in vitro diag).
In reply to Valerie
It doesn’t matter. This is not about individual people. Let’s stay on subject.
Here Here to Common Sense!!!! Here is the thing Common Sense. I guarantee you that Dionne, Valerie et al are all extreme marxist leftists. Again, when something is entrenched you can’t change somebody’s opinion. Like Lenin said “a lie told often enough becomes the truth” even though it is still a lie.
But seriously, even if its experimental lets see what happens if state legislatures pass the laws the prohibit tipping to all service, retail and food establishments. I would love to see the results.
In reply to Dan
See the thing here is, this technically is a small issue, however, the “pro tippers” want to make it much bigger than it already is–“i’m a single mother,” “my wages depend on tips,” “show some compassion” are the ONLY arguments i here on the pro tip side.
Why not make some ECONOMICAL, POLITICAL AND RATIONAL sense to your arguments? I mean as Dionne mentioned, if Wait staff were forbidden to take tips such as, say EMT workers or Phlebotomists, then they wouldn’t be able to make upwards of $63 K a year. Dionne’s mere mentioning of such a high wage shows me EXACTLY why wait staff don’t unionize to make minimum wage or simply leave their jobs–the TIP status quo is allowing them to make ridiculously, and quite honestly, over inflated wages.
The jig is up. We now know why wait staff don’t want to let go of their precious status quo. The manager gets to have a much higher profit margin, while the wait staff receive begged money from the clients, the very clients conned into this status quo.
In reply to Common Sense
I’m just going to make the statement that just because Dionne is making $63 K a year does not mean all waiters are. Even with tips, waiters still don’t make those inflated wages. For all we know Dionne may work at a very high end restaurant.
My boyfriend is a waiter at cracker barrel. And a day where he works a 5 hour shift can vary from him bringing at low as $30 in home in tips and the most he ever made on a ridiculously busy church day, he made about $80. A day where he makes 50 or more is considered a really good day, because his tips are never that much normally.
Still a good pay in general, but the problem with Cracker Barrel (I know, the specifics are irrelevant to the debate) is that Cracker Barrel overstaffs so the waiters only get about 20 hrs a week if they are lucky. So while hourly it may be decent, the problem is they don’t get enough hours. Definitely not a livable wage.
So while Dionne may make that much, not every waiter does.
In reply to Brittney
Does that mean that EVERY waiter should be making the same wage? Again, its capitalism, so not everyoen is guranteed the same wage.
Again i’m in the sciences. Not all scientists make the same wage as well. Some companies pay more than others. Its a part of life.
Again, i’m not legally obliged to tip. Even if you LOSING money, you agreed as a condition of your employment at the restaurant of interest, that you will be receiving whatever wage your employer provides you plus tips. Since tips are considered OPTIONAL, you, therefore, will not be guranteed a high wage. Although your EMPLOYER is supposed to make sure all of his staff receives minimum wage, including when the staff may not necessarily make it up to quota on their tips.
Again, it is not legal on my part to tip. Your boyfriend making -$10 a day does not concern me. Again, as a consumer, what concerns me is my food. Note the term CONSUMER. We live in a capitalist society where your ills mean nothing to me. For all I care, as I mentioned, you could be a single mother/father with 20 children, living in a 300 square foot house in South Central in the middle of the sought after Blood/Crip territory, suffering scurvy, hepatitis, pneumonia, and athlete’s food. I really do not consider this when I eat out, just as I do not consider the living conditions of teh Wal Mart cashier, teh Best Buy associate, the car salesman, the sanitation engineer, the postal worker etc.
This is a capitalist society. Compassion means nothing in business.
If you feel so entitled to a higher wage, again, get another job. I can EASILY find you a job in the sanitation field and you can START at around $15/hour.
In reply to Common Sense
At no point did I say that waiters should all be paid the same? Find where I said that. And you are in sciences? Cool, but irrelevant. Jobs are all paid differently, duh.
I was making a point to the statement that you said. You know, “a high wage shows me EXACTLY why wait staff don’t unionize to make minimum wage or simply leave their jobs–the TIP status quo is allowing them to make ridiculously, and quite honestly, over inflated wages.”
I was saying that, GREAT, Dionne is making a shitload of money. But not all waiters are. So to say that waiters in general are or aren’t taking certain actions because they get “ridiculously over inflated wages” is an inaccurate statement that only applies to certain waiters who DO have the ability to make that much.
And where did I say you are legally obligated to tip? Why bring up a point that I never have pushed?
And of course, when someone takes a waiting job they agree during their employment on a set hourly pay plus tips. I never said they didn’t? And yeah, tips ARE considered optional, but just because they are optional does not mean that the waiter is guaranteed a low wage either, just as they aren’t guaranteed a high wage. Again, I never said they were guaranteed either or, so your point there is?
And again, you said you’re not legally obligated to tip. Okay I know this. And again, where did I say you are?
And seriously, stop bringing up this whole “I’m a consumer, I’m a consumer,” crap. You may be a consumer but you are also a human being. You can never separate being human from being a consumer. You may be a consumer, but you are a living, breathing, human being capable of emotion who is a consumer. Just because you are a “consumer” doesn’t mean that you aren’t a human being who is not capable of AT LEAST comprehending the world around you and the people around you if you don’t care.
And don’t think that what kind of society we live in makes all people like you. You don’t care about my ills? Fine, I don’t care about yours either. You get what you give. But don’t think that because YOU are a jerk who is selfish and only cares about yourself, that other people are the same way.
And you say that you do not consider my life woes just as you do not consider someone elses working at Best Buy, etc? Well, you know when you eat out, tips are livelihood for waitstaff. You KNOW this. At Wal Mart, Best Buy, etc, there is no reason to even consider that fact because tipping is not associated or normal for those jobs. In America, it is. Whether you like the system, hate the system, it is what it is and unless you’re a foreigner and completely oblivious to the customs, this is our custom. Right or wrong. TRUST ME, don’t get me started on how many other American customs are screwed up, but that is just the way things are.
My point is, no matter your opinion on it, you are well aware that tipping is the normal for eating out. Whether it be tipping $1 or $20, it’s expected to show gratefulness for good service AKA Gratuity.
You don’t leave a tip, the waiter gets crap from their bosses because that represents that the service was not worthy of a tip.
I’m not saying the system is the best, but why not tip 2 dollars? Why leave NOTHING?
The legality of it let’s you get away with NOT tipping, but just because it’s not written in law does not mean it’s excusable as a persons attitude.
I really don’t understand, if people are really strapped for money so bad that they can’t leave a couple dollars tip, than why even eat out? Why not stay home and cook some 50 cent rom & noodles that you obviously need more than restaurant food, since how leaving a couple dollars tip would burn such a hole in your pocket.
Let’s honestly not get into the legality of things. I’m not legally required to do a lot of things, but I still do it because it’s the right thing to do.
But honestly, you are rambling about pointless crap that has NOTHING to do with my original statement.
By my stating the facts of my boyfriends average pay at Cracker Barrel, at no point did I say “Oh, boo hoo, cry us a river and care about our lives.” I mentioned his wage to prove that not everyone’s pay is “over inflated” that works in the waiting industry.
You know, for someone who is saying they are for logical, sensible arguments, you haven’t made a single sensible point in response to my comment, so why did you bother to respond at all?
In reply to Brittney
if a custom is so screwed up, why go along with it? BLacks used to be persecuted. Are you saying you should have just gone along with that back in the 1950s?
the fact that you are simply agreeing to my statements shows me I am not rambling. Instead I am making points while ruffling some feathers of the current status quo.
Everyone is selfish. That’s life. We care for ourselves only. We care for our families only. We care for our locals only. That is how human beings work. If we were so selfless, we wouldn’t have issues such as war, population control issues, promiscuity, and other environmental issues. Let us leave the “selfish” arguments at the door please.
How about this, I will tip $2.00, regardless of the bill, Brittney. As you said, here in California, I do not have to tip, right? Simply because everyone is making minimum, right?
OK, $2.00, even if the bill is $10, $20, $100, $1000. Is that ok with you?
If you hate the system, do something about it. Unionize, protest, get another job, write a letter to your congressman.
I didn’t say that your boyfriend has an inflated wage, however most wait staff do and that is fact. Your wages do not concern me. What concerns me is how well prepared the food was and how effficient the service was, that is all.
Again, stop arguing about humanism. It has no place in capitalism.
In reply to Common Sense
Okay, first off, let’s no compare KILLING PEOPLE to leaving a tip. Not even close to the same thing. So that custom isn’t comparable, and most people DID NOT linch or kill black people. Open a history book. Were most people prejudiced? Maybe so. But when people are raised in ignorance, it’s hard to break them of it.
And not everyone is selfish. Remember Hurricane Katrina? Remember all of the help that this nation provided? If everyone was so selfish, no one would do a single charitable act. Yet that is simply not the case, is it? So yeah, I’m going to bring selfishness into it, because not everyone is selfish, as you claim they are. After all, I don’t live off of tips, so why do I defend tipping? I MUST be selfish and only care about myself, according to you. So why would I defend something that has no benefit to me? Because I’m so selfish and only care about myself, right? WRONG. So selfishness is relevant.
And my statement was that a $2 tip is better than nothing. Is it the right way to tip in the case of every bill? NO. But I’m sure that someone would rather be left $2 than $0.
And I DON’T hate the system. Personally, it doesn’t really bother me. Sure, there are things in it that don’t make sense. But I could say the same about every single US Bill or Law. So I have no desire to change the system, nor would changing it really matter to me.
And ask how many waiters are left good tips because they connected with the customers. That proves humanism has a place in that industry.
In reply to Dan
politics don’t need to be brought into this discussion.
I don’t leave tips based on service. Good or bad they always get 25%. Why? Because I believe in tithing. Since I’m not an active church goer I feel giving servers cash is a great way to give to those in need. Instead of money going to some charity and not knowing where its spent I can leave knowing I helped someone out directly. It makes me feel good to leave 10 bucks on a 25.00 dinner knowing that server is going to be happy and feel good when they open that little folder after I have left.
order for takeout cheapass
In reply to cam
Remember, wait staffing is a job. In this US, all economics are based on capitalism.
Brittney–humanism has no place in capitalism. Didn’t I mention that before. This is why i continuosly bring up the fact that I am not legally obliged to pay.
It isn’t about “compassion.” If it were, all of your American farm workers would be paid higher. That’s right, they aren’t really Americans are they? They are illegals working under wage.
Do they receive tips?
Cam–I will order what I want when I want. Who are you to say otherwise?
In reply to Common Sense
Bhagwad, don’t even get me STARTED on illegal immigrants. They should not even be in this discussion, because they shouldn’t even BE HERE. Do you know how many American citizen paid tax dollars go towards the illegal immigrant issue? BILLIONS
They are even lucky to be in this country, let alone to find ANY work whether or not it is in a fair wage. If they want a fair wage, let them come over LEGALLY and they will get it.
Coming from Key West, FL (neighbor to Cuba), I saw illegals ALL THE TIME, cheating the system and reaping the benefits through welfare, etc while they sit on their asses all day and produce tons of children that they can’t afford.
So who ends up paying for it? ME, and all of the other legally working American citizens who pay taxes.
Let’s leave illegals out of this. After all, you don’t see me waltzing into a country illegally and feeling entitled to a single damn thing, do you? NO. And if I were to EVER cross borders to another country without the right, I WOULDNT be entitled to ANYTHING.
And how many times must I tell YOU, Bhagwad, that no matter what kind of society we live in, you are STILL a human being. That fact goes deeper than any law on tipping. I don’t care whether this is a capitalist nation or not.
Obviously if your views are so right, most people wouldn’t leave a tip, just like you. Yet they don’t, so your at the wrong end of the spectrum here.
Everything you’re saying is pointless.
In reply to Brittney
I never mentioned illegal immigrants!
In reply to bhagwad
LOL I corrected it. Typed your name instead of his, although I’m sure his name isn’t actually “Common Sense”.
In reply to Brittney
I think the real issue is this.
No one has any problems with being generous. Contrary to what you may expect, most of us here are generous people and like helping others in need.
The problem arises when generosity is demanded and expected instead of being profoundly grateful for it. If someone holds out a hand and demands my generosity I will tell them to go screw themselves. Generosity should never be expected. It should come as a pleasant surprise. And if it’s not forthcoming, there should be no outcry of “Oh god, you weren’t generous!”
And that is why this whole tipping issue cannot be compared to “generosity”. It’s an abuse of the term.
In reply to Common Sense
OH MY MISTAKE “Common Sense” not “Bhagwad”
In reply to Brittney
Bhagwad makes a great point about generosity. It cannot be demanded.
For example, I don’t mind leaving a tip, but why 15%? Why I can’t leave whatever I want to leave. I went to Denny’s the other night, the bill was $20, so I left $2. Is that fair?
Illegals are just a parallel example of how teh generosity argument falls flat when discussing how markets and capitalism works.
Again Brittney, discuss markets and capitalism in the business arena. Don’t mention kindness.
Humanism is different.
Katrina, Sandy etc.–that kindness was VOLUNTARY and ANYTHING that was donated was appreciated. Nobody asked for someone to give 15% of their income to the Sandy victims, right?
Again Brittney, and i mean no offense by this, but discuss business, don’t discuss our humanity. Otherwise, we have no right buying anything that is made in China or India, which is pretty much 65-75% of everything each household owns.
Cool so if i ever see your ugly ass come into my restaurant youre getting a grat.