It never fails to shock me how a tip is demanded in the US. People simply refuse to listen to reason when we (yes, there are others!) tell them that leaving a tip isn’t necessary. Well, I’m hoping for too much here, but if you’re a waiter, here are 5 reasons why I will try my best not to give any money to you and why the reasons for tipping are crappy.
1. You act as if you’re my best friend
Just leave me alone ok? I don’t want to bloody chit chat with you. I want food. FOOD! Get it? It’s a restaurant. I go there to eat. I go because I want either Italian food, Chinese Food or something else which I can’t get in a McDonald’s. So I come to a restaurant to fulfill my cravings for it. I will pay for what I value – food. Not you.
Christ, you offend me – kneeling down next to my table, pretending to like me and chatting as if you’re my best friend when it’s obvious that all you’re after is the tip! I’m not a bloody money bag you know. I will pay the bill which includes the cost of the food, the environment and the salaries of the people involved – nothing more.
The only way to get money out of me that I don’t have to legally pay is by prying it out of my cold dead hands…
Bottom line: I don’t want to know your name, or interact with you for any longer than I have to in order to place my order. As far as I’m concerned, you’re the equivalent of a conveyor belt that brings me my food and a computer into which I input my order. Of course, I won’t be rude. But don’t expect me to interact with you any more than I would with some stranger.
Image Credit: cafemama
2. You don’t get paid enough
And this is my problem how exactly? It’s astonishing that customers are expected to make up for your employer’s cheapness in not paying you a decent wage. Please include the full cost in everyone’s bill thank you very much. I’ll pay it because I have to and the charge is there for me to see.
What’s really funny here is that no one seems to criticize the employers! All criticism is reserved for non tipping customers instead of the owners of the restaurant for not paying a decent wage. Wtf! Could it possibly be because you guys know you can make much more by tips and under report your income to the IRS?
3. You’ll spit in my food if I don’t tip you?
And I’ll shoot your kid if you don’t give me a million dollars. Seriously, am I even hearing this right? You’re actually using the threat of blackmail to make me pay you? Well as long as you’re openly claiming to be a criminal it’s all right I guess.
Fortunately that’s why I prefer buffets. Listen apart from it being illegal, this shows your poor integrity. But if you spit in someone’s food because they didn’t give you money you didn’t earn, then you’re a loser and deserve to be a waiter for the rest of your life.
4. Bringing me my food isn’t worthy of being paid extra
Did you cook it? Did you invent it? No. You picked it up and brought it to me. While it might not be easy, there are plenty of jobs which are much worse – shop floor workers for example. And I’ve been a shop floor manager, so I know. Face it – compared to other jobs, being a waiter is unskilled. You get paid what the market will think your services are worth. You don’t deserve more for your work over and above what your employer should pay you.
5. Money doesn’t grow on trees
I expect you to be grateful and pray for me at night if I tip you 10%. Be happy I gave you anything at all. I worked for the money in my wallet and by giving you some I didn’t have to, I’m doing you a favor. Learn to remember that when people give you something they don’t need to, it’s a favor. You don’t complain that they didn’t give you more!
By the way, the same thing above applies to all professions that demand tips including those on cruise liners.
So now that you understand why I won’t give you money you don’t deserve, stop with the “oh how could you?” attitude. I can. And I will.
Update: Here’s a rebuttal of the many silly justifications for tipping that people have given in the comments section.
You simply do not understand how the service industry works. By paying restaurant staff minimum wage, restaurants are able to keep their price points down. If they were responsible for paying their entire wait staff (servers, bussers, hosts) a decent wage, they’d have to raise the food costs in order to maintain a reasonable profit. Tipping allows the server and wait staff to make a living, and allows your favorite restaurants to keep their prices low enough for your cheap ass to afford.
In reply to Rachel
Then Rachel, i’ve said this about a million times already so let me ask again in caps.
WHY CAN CALIFORNIA RESTAURANTS PAY THEIR WAIT STAFF MINIMUM WAGE WHILE KEEPING FOOD PRICES AS COMPETITIVE AS OTHER STATES?
C’mon man, give me a break.
I am an American waitress and I am boiling after reading this. My job takes no skill? Can you balance 3 plates on one arm and another in the opposite hand? Can you carry 6 drinks in two hands? Can you memorize an entire menu, and alcohol menu in 3 days of training? Can you handle catering to the needs of 6 tables at a time? That could be a total of 36 people at once, you know. Did you know in North Carolina the wait staff only makes $2.13 an hour? Did you know that it’s nearly impossible to get a well-paying job in this economy, so we rely on our social skills to pay our bills. I am currently in college working on a business degree and I also have a 9 month old daughter that I solely take care of. The money that you leave me pays for her food, diapers, clothes, day care and toys. Plus it’s also paying for my rent, car, insurance, cell phone, gas and utilities. So if you come want to come to an American restaurant and not tip, order your food to-go or stick with McDonald’s. And if you’re gonna be brave enough to sit down and make some unfortunate server wait on you, let them know before you order that you won’t tip. That way he/she won’t waste any of their time or energy on you.
In reply to laurin
did you know that California staff make minimum wage?
Listen, all jobs are difficult in their own way. Have you ever have to study stool samples for 8 hours? its not fun trust me.
The labort department describes your particular occupation as unskilled. Take it up with the goverment.
I’m not legally obliged to tip. Nor am I legally obliged to tell the wait staff I won’t tip.
Forget to mention, not only am I taking care of tables, bringing drinks, food, refills, taking orders and bringing checks, I’m also cleaning tables, making sure we have ice and cups and plates and napkins at our drink stations. If you don’t tip me, I did all that work for free since my hourly pay is used as proof that I work there and is only enough to cover taxes. So seriously, screw you. If you don’t like American culture, then don’t come to America.
In reply to laurin
American culture? All of your stuff is probably from China–where you either have a baby boy or an abortion, where sweat shops are common. Don’t talk to me about morals please.
All jobs are difficult, doesn’t matter. You chose the profession. You accepted a wage of $2.13. You are the employee. Take your wages up with your EMPLOYER. I’m a consumer, therefore your wages and bills mean nothing to me. I can’t tip the Best BUy associate, can I? Again, in California, all wait staff make minimum, so why do i have to tip them if I can’t tip the Wal Mart Cashier?
Remember, American culture allowed slavery and blacks sitting in the back of the bus. You know what they used to say–“If you don’t like American culture, then don’t come to America.”
It was also part of Nazi Germans culture to round up Jews and Gypsies in camps. It was also American culture to round up Japanese Americans and put them in camps. It still is American culture to have a very wealthy neighborhood next to a poor neighborhood in order to ensure the wealthy neighborhood has enough workers and laborers around. It is still American culture to go to other countries and drone the heck out of them.
I can go on all day about culture, so please don’t mix that topic up with capitalism and the free market.
Norway doesn’t have a minimum wage. THey also don’t believe in tipping. Does this mean Norway is bad because they don’t pay their staff minimum AND don’t tip? China does this as well. So does India. Remember, Norway’s GDP is much higher per capita than America’s.
No, you aren’t obligated to fight for waiters. But it doesn’t mean you have to take advantage of the exploitation that others practice on them. As a waiter, there are times when the taxes placed on me, combined with little or no tip, combined with the money I pay out to my support staff of bussers, etc, actually means that I have to pay to wait on you. That feels a lot like slavery to me. If slavery were still legal, I suppose you would say it is the slaves’ problem to get free, and you’re entitled to their labor, as well. Not your fault, it’s the government’s, right? You think it’s easy working that job? What a laugh. And to those of you saying we should get a different job? Have you heard? We’re in an economic crisis, there are people with masters degrees trying to get minimum wage jobs. Yes, we should lobby the government to improve our situation, but I don’t expect much help from cheap pricks like you. That’s really all it comes down to. You think we want to degrade ourselves by pretending to be nice to rude assholes like you? Ever think that the establishments we work for require us to make bullshit chit chat with unpleasant bastards like you? Believe me, I wish I didn’t have to smile or talk to anyone who didn’t want to hear it, but then you would say you weren’t tipping us because we were unpleasant, wouldn’t you? Enjoy your “bloody” money that you work so hard for, obviously it means more to you than people’s well being. Just consider what it would be like if you went in to work, knowing you were going to have to work your ass off for eight to twelve hours, but not knowing if you were actually going to leave with money for working all that time. Also imagine if your employer could pay you more or less based on the look on your face, or if they were having a bad day, or just because they felt like it.
In reply to LeftyA
Please don’t compare being a server with slavery – I don’t know if you’re serious or not. Slaves could not just walk away from being exploited and if they tried they were hunted down.
So I’m going to ignore that part of your comment. You’re not a slave. You chose to work this job. I can understand complaining about it. But don’t demand that other people help you.
In reply to bhagwad
Slaves lack property, lack certain rights and also lack the ability to walk away from their master. As a waiter, you CHOSE the job. You can walk away whenever you’d like. You chose the job. Don’t demand others to pitch into your ills.
There are also Ph.D’s that are fighting for minimum wage jobs. Again, it isn’t my problem. I’m a consumer. I’m at the restaurant to CONSUME, not discuss politics.
As far as I’m concerned, the government should just stop enforcign ALL job related issues such as wages, safety, etc. Why does big brother need to tell its people how much to make? If you can work $1/hour, then that’s up to you. Why does big brother have to tell me to wear steel toes boots or not? If I want my foot to be smashed, then its my problem.
Want a better job? Work for a trucking company. Work for sanitation. Work janitorial. Some sanitation guys make (and I should say start) at around $12/hour. Its dirty, but the demand is high.
Well being is subjective. If the person literally isn’t starving, they are well off. Bread and milk is fine. It isn’t my problem how much you bring home. Just give me my food. I don’t have to pay you legally. In fact, if you pester me, you are harassing me, which is illegal.
hey asshole, guess what? you are part of society, if you want to go out to eat, you are going to tip. if you don’t want to do that then DON’T EAT AT A RESTAURANT. you are a lazy, selfish asshole that thinks since you could string together a few bullshit “reasons” together you’re somehow better than everyone else? I would LOVE to see you go to work as a server for ONE DAY & I more than guarantee this entitled opinion of yours will change before your shift ends. just take my advice & stop going out to eat… that, or go to hell
In reply to Kelly
Ah, if wishes were horses… :)
Sorry to disappoint you, but no – I won’t stop eating out and won’t tip either. Ask your employer to pay you your wages.
In reply to Kelly
Hey there Kelly–I would love to see you work in an ER, on the battlefield, in a hospital etc etc etc.
Guess what??? All work is work, not play.
You are being selfish for feeling entitled to a tip in the first place. If you work here in California, you already receive minimum wage. Why would I want to pay you more? What about the Wal Mart cashier?
Your employer is responsible for your wages, not the consumer.
This article is HILARIOUS! I am a waitress in my 20s. I work upwards of 40 hours a week and take 18 credit hours a semester at a well-known university in my state. I have no children, and I work to help support my family – which includes myself, my younger sister, my mother, and my disabled father.
I’m not going to try and argue with you, Bhagwad, since you CLEARLY know so much about what “skills” are (or AREN’T) required to be a “servant” (because that’s what we are to you, right?)…but I will say:
1) For being a “writer,” your grammar, capitalization, and punctuation are absolutely ATROCIOUS.
2) The haiku section LITERALLY makes me want to commit suicide. You have absolutely BUTCHERED the art of haiku on this website. “A weekend morning To watch with wife, tea A favorite serial.” To watch WHAT with wife? WHOSE WIFE?! Is it YOUR wife? Did you mean favorite CEREAL? Or is there a “Crappy Haiku Part II” somewhere that goes into detail about your favorite serial KILLER? I’m quite confused. And while we’re at it, what in the hell is with that breakfast haiku? You’re talking about a fork, and then all of a sudden you just spew out “UNIQUELY HUMAN!” It sounds more like you’ve got some screwed up version of Tourette’s syndrome, to me. Did you know that although you’re only allowed 17 morae, your haiku still has to make some sort of sense?
Here’s another great example of your unmitigated failure: “Mass of flesh and bones That once were meant so much more Something from nothing.” The English in the second phrase is…deplorable. I’ve heard better from a second grader. Kudos. You are an insult to Bashō and pretty much every high-school level English teacher in the United States.
3) Perhaps you should stop sucking so much at your chosen profession. Actually, now that I’ve read some of your terrible writing, I can kind of see how you wouldn’t want to give any of your money away to us beggars. Judging by the quality of your work, you probably don’t *make* very much of it, so you should probably try to save whatever you can. Eventually people are going to get tired of humoring you just because you’re a friend or a colleague and they’ll just start telling you outright about how much you suck.
4) Your name is Bhagwad. That sounds like someone saying “bag wad” and coughing up a bunch of mucus in the middle of it. So, in essence, you’re a wad of bags covered in phlegm. I don’t even care how rude that is. I mean, your parents chose to name you a totally shitty name, how is that MY fault?!
So, to everyone else who has read this and gotten completely and utterly pissed off at the lack of respect for his fellow man and the overall self-righteous tone of this lint-licker’s crappy article, just remember, you’ve got something else going for you…
…at least your name isn’t Bhagwad.
(And you can probably pull a better haiku out of your left nostril, too.)
In reply to Sara
ALSO: Did you know that your website allowed me use the email “kissmyass@suckmydick.com”?
You should proooooobably get that fixed. Even us smartass servants like to have a little fun sometimes.
;)
In reply to Sara
Sara, and I don’t mean to sound rude, but if you truly are struggling with school and a family, then why take the time out of your day to even comment on such a thread?
Again, I don’t have to pay you. Your ills mean nothing to me. I’m a consumer. In capitalism, its all about spending spending spending. Socialism (note the word “social”) is demonstratively more “pro people” on paper, however in practice it tends to make daily activities incredibly inefficient.
Keep that in mind. For all I care ( and again I don’t mean to sound mean), you could have 10 children, be taking 30 units at Harvard while living in the Boston projects in a 300 square foot shanty. That still is no concern for me. I just want my food.
In reply to Sara
Lol, at least I don’t demand that people pay me for my haikus…unlike you :)
Thank you for attacking me personally. I love it when people do that. One because it shows how much I’ve pissed them off, and two because it means you have absolutely no rational arguments to make.
Congratulations on coming here and making a fool of yourself.
In reply to Sara
you do know that Bhagwad is probably an Indian name, right Sara?
What’s going on? Did the Klan decide to come on this post and spew their hate? LOL
Ed, Bhajwad, everyone else who seems to think its up to my employer to pay me more,
as you’ve taken the time out of your life to let the internet know just how anti tipping you are, i feel it’s safe to assume that you are…how can i word this politely…thrifty. Let me help you understand why you should be thrilled to tip and understand why the FEDERAL minimum is 2.13 for tipped employees. Now I assume based on your anti tipping, thrifty nature, that you love a good deal, almost as much as you hate paying too much. that said lets see if you can follow this logic. your typical fast food establishment (where tipping is not required) has at any given moment at most 8-10 employees on their clock. most of those are being paid minimum wage or, if they are lucky, slightly above. for the sake of this argument lets average that to 10 employees making 8.50 an hour (before taxes) that means it costs mcdonalds 85 dollars an hour just to have people in the building to get you your beloved mcrib. $85 dollars and we haven’t even started to pay for the power, the water, the rent on the building, the cost of beef, bread, fries, cooking utensils, the paper to wrap your burger in etc. that means they’d have to sell at least 85 mcdoubles an hour just to break even on labor. (assuming that god has gifted the golden arches with those mcdoubles for free…he hasn’t) lets move that same math into a casual dining sit down restaurant. now i know this might be hard for some of you to comprehend but know this: YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY CUSTOMER. There are many of you and they are all hungry and waited patiently for a table like you did. It takes a much larger workforce for a restaurant to provide you with the goods and services you so reluctantly pay for. You remember that lovely girl who showed you to your table…and then also the table by the window because you didn’t like your first table? she gets payed. that waiter you grabbed to get you a new napkin even though he was not your waiter? he gets paid. That manager you asked to talk to because your pina colada was not exactly as creamy as you imagined? Paid. The bartender who had to remake your drink (and often pay for it)? they get paid to. So tonight you want a steak cooked well done but still juicy with french fries and steamed veggies. Well then you can thank Juan on the flattop, Nancy on the fryside, Thomas who steamed your veggies, and the silent twins who got to work at five in the morning to cut and portion your julienned carrots. they all get payed. So does nick…Nick is the one who made sure your food was hot and on the right plate. Boy it sure is nice to not have to wash your own dishes good thing we have Antonio back there getting paid. Wow that’s a lot of people. So lets do some math shall we. 2 hosts + 20 servers + 4 bartenders + 3 kitchen expos + 10 cooks + 2 kitchen preps +2 bussers + Antonio on dishes + one manager – one manager (that jerk is on salary like a sucker) = 44 people all getting paid. Now if all 44 of those people were somehow foolish enough to work as hard as they do for the same as our Mcdonalds friends then it cost the restaurant $374 dollars an hour just to pay the people to be in the building. That’s $2992 simply to pay employees for a standard 8 hour shift. Now add that to the rising cost of food. the water you needed but drank none of, the lights, the plates, the napkins, the monthly cable bill for 10 different tvs, the music rights, and employee benefits (yes we get benefits mom) etc. etc. etc. you can see how it might be hard to make a profit off of the Two dine for twenty dollars menu. What I’m saying is that little 20 percent you should be embarrassed not to leave at the end of every meal is much cheaper than your dinner would have been if my employer had to pay me to put up with you. So i guess really the choice is yours suck it up and tip like a man, or change the laws and start enjoying $35 dollar cheesburgers.
In reply to Chexty
It never fails to astonish me to hear people demand that I try and change the law to improve their lives. It’s hilarious. Take some responsibility.
If the food is really that expensive, cheaper restaurants will open that make it possible. Don’t you worry about that.
You sir, are completely uninformed about the serving industry. Are you aware that your tip is not simply going to your server? It actually goes to everyone including the bus staff, the kitchen, and the bar. If you don’t tip, then not only is your server not making minimum wage but they are actually PAYING to serve you. If you don’t want to tip go to a restaurant without servers and plug it into a conveyer belt or computer your damned self. You are a horrible human being and I doubt you could handle being a server for a night.
Go fuck yourself asshole.
If I ever see you in my restaurant, I won’t spit in your food. I promise. However, I may just point out to everyone in there what a horrible person you are and then deny you service. If you don’t want to tip then our establishment doesn’t want your cheap ass around. Learn how to be a decent human being fucker.
In reply to Robert Francis Curtis
Oh man, Bhagwad’s fan boy Common Sense is gonna have a field day with this one.
In reply to Robert Francis Curtis
Regardless of my actual oppinion, I would love for you to name the “establishment” you work for/own/operate. I can promise 100% that if you’re not the owner and you actually do what you’re claiming (refusing service to the non tippers) you’ll be fired on the spot. And if you’re the owner I REALLY dare you to do the same. It’s against the law to do that and somebody will get a lawsuit against you. You can’t just deny somebody service because they don’t tip. Watch how much money you get sued for. Unless you charge gratuity (which is legal), you won’t get away with that one.
I still however stand by that if you dont tip you’re a cheap ass, but not a bad person. The server still gets minmum wage by law.
Very few people commenting that do support tipping bring a valid reason for tipping. Most of it is abusive garbage/trolling that people woulden’t dare say to the face of another person. Much like this post where he says he’ll “refuse service to non-tippers”. That’s just an outright lie. Not tipping doesn’t make you a “horrible human being”. Rape, murder, theft to higher degrees does. Lying, cheating, stealing to lower degrees makes you a bad person. A horrible human being for not leaving a tip (when the server still gets minmum wage by law) is stretching it quite a lot.
However the author of this blog isn’t exactly right either. Not tipping at least a reasonable ammount is kind of bullshit under MOST circumstances. You’re argument is that you want to see the gratuity charge on your bill? Isn’t tipping in the first place the same thing? Since you’re “expected” to tip 10-15% anyway by society, isn’t it better that you have the option not to tip if you have shitty service? Think about it, if minimum wage was fair, and servers made the same as everybody else, the menu prices should average about a 10-15% hike (the same as the tip to cover the cost). Now you are forced into paying the upcharge anyway. I think having the option is better. If you have shitty service no tip? Regular service gets 15% and awesome service can get however much else above that?
Not saying you’re wrong about most of your points anyway. But The conveyor belt theory, and the one at hand is kind of stretching it. A conyeor belt can’t go the extra mile for you. I realize you claim that is not what you’re looking for, but i’m sure in certain circumstances you’re thankful you have somebody competant taking your order. For me, I prefer the option. If you dont tip, the employer has to pay the piper (and your cost doesn’t increase on the food). If that were to change you’d still be forced into paying extra.
As far as California is concerned I see the arguments about minimum wage but I only agree to a point. As an area director, I can tell you, corporate isn’t going to hike menu prices based on one states laws. It’s bad for business. We change our menu prices based on the venue but not by state law. If every state had a fair minmum wage law for the servers, like Cali, I think corporate would need to hike the prices up at least 8-10%. it’s too much of a loss at that point. 49 other states (and often other countires) can soak up the labor costs, but if everybody did it it would be a different story.
Also while I agree with some of the Libertarian views expressed here, abolishing minmum wage is going too far from the initial point. And when we talk about “capitalism” I think tipping is VERY capitalist so that argument is also null and void. Capitalism allows the market to dictate prices, and if you feel your service is worth the extra buck, you can pay. Standardized wages are “less” capitalist. So let’s just stick to the topic at hand, no offense.
Point is, to the author, what is the better option? Would you really prefer to be forced into a higher price or have the option like you do now? You know as the consumer you also have the privlege of telling your server to just leave you alone and bring you the food instead of pretending to love you… If they do what you ask just pay the minmum.
In reply to Ryan
Thanks for the reasoned response Ryan. Personally I would far prefer to pay a higher price upfront on the menu. For three reasons:
1. I know well beforehand what my out of pocket expense is going to be. I can look at the menu and see what I can afford/not afford
2. A direct upfront price allows easy price comparisons between various establishments. I just look at the menus online and see where I can afford to go and where I cannot
3. I really don’t want to bother about “rating” the service and deciding the tip. I don’t want to think about it. You might think I’m demeaning the server by comparing them to a conveyor belt, but that was not the intention. That was my way of saying that I want them to remain invisible while I enjoy my food. I don’t disrespect them or hate them. It’s just that I don’t place a high value on their services. I just want the food brought to me and other basic stuff like refills etc. It’s not personal.
But comparing tipping to “letting the market decide” is I feel an error. The market is predicated upon competition and perfect information. For this line of reasoning to work, every server must hold a placard with their expected tip amount and let the customer decide who they want to choose as their server.
In any case my view is to just roll everything into the cost of food. I don’t mind paying more as long as I can budget my expense before I order and I have the choice to go elsewhere knowing the respective costs.
In reply to bhagwad
The argument that you don’t know the cost beforehand is fallacious. You can add in the culturally expected tip in the math.
In reply to MS
Wow – I’m supposed to sit and calculate 15% of each and every dish on the menu? And to help the waiters?
One would think that it’s in the restaurants/waiters best interests to automatically increase the price of the food by 15% and save customers the bother. Or put the extra 15% in brackets on the menu.
If waiters expect free money to be given to them, the least they can do is to make it easy for the generous donors! It’s so funny demanding money from someone and insisting that they do all the hard work themselves :)
In reply to bhagwad
I don’t buy that for a second. You mean to tell me that 15% is such a daunting task? It probaly takes under 5 seconds for most without any critical thinking. That’s a figure that just pops into your mind. Sorry but that argument is invalid. I’m not trying to be overly sarcastic but 10% is something early elementary because you only need to move the decimal point over one place. I don’t see how this can be looked at as something “difficult” and “inconvenient” when it doesnt even take effort in the first place. You don’t exactly need a calculator and a math book.
In reply to Ryan
You’re missing the point. Why should I have to do any work when I’m the one who’s giving money? When a beggar asks you for money they gratefully accept what you give them. They don’t go around demanding more or some exact quantity!
I doubt if anyone can suddenly off the top of their head calculate 15% of 16.25 + 4.56 + 8.99. That’s total bull. I can do it if I had to. But you’re forgetting I came to eat and blindly pay a bill. I may even do it if it’s fun.
But I’m the customer. It’s my wallet and I shouldn’t have to do any work.
“Culturally expected” practices are total bull. It’s “culturally expected” to mistreat women in Saudi Arabia. That doesn’t mean I’m going to do it!
In reply to bhagwad
I’ve mentioned numerous times that there is a great portion of your argument that I agree with. Especialy on the “culture” end of it, and I am very much with you on the prinicple of the matter too. But your grossly exagerating the “work involved with 15% and I think you’re too smart to beleive that it’s any work at all.
Its not this + this + that + that… They give you a SUBTOTAL to which when you move it over one decimal you have 10% (add half of that and it’s 15%). In fact before your order you STILL need to do your own math to firgure out how much things costs even if your ordering at McDonalds, Walmart or anywhere else. It’s not as if you go to the supermarket and everything is auto calculated for you anyway. You always need to do you’re own math no matter where you are.
But that aside 15% of a subtotal is an elementary figure. If you think that’s considered “work” then I simply don’t beleive you. You dont even need to think about it once you see the subtotal. There isn’t any brainwork involved unless you’re mentally disadvantaged (which I very much doubt you are).
Many of your arguments are valid but that’s just over reaching.
In reply to Ryan
I was responding to the “culturally expected” aspect to the original commenter…
But there’s no denying that I find it arrogant for a waiter to expect me to do any work greater than pay my bill. I’m there to enjoy myself after all…
The only thing I want to address is all the people saying that the employer is responsible for paying the difference of low/no tips. I just don’t think this ever happens. I know, I know..it’s a law. But who’s watching? I’m betting most employees don’t even know this is something they are entitled to. And the ones that do? Who’s going to make a stink about it? Poof, you’re let go.
I’ve seen some internet petitions floating around to raise tipped minimum wage, so I suppose it’s a start.
By not tipping, you’re just taking advantage of the system. And hurting people in the process.
Also, the argument about why other employees aren’t tipped is just stupid and we already went over this. It’s recognized nationwide by the tipped employee wage. That, and..it’s just the way things are. You don’t tip your cashier, but you would tip a personal shopper. You don’t tip your bus driver, but you tip your taxi driver. It’s just the way things are.
In reply to Valerie
But “it’s just the way things are” is really a horrible reason to do something. In Saudi Arabia, women are mistreated and not allowed to drive or allowed to walk around in public without a male companion. It’s “just the way things are” and it’s “recognized nationwide”.
You have to do what you think is right and what makes most sense. Following customs and accepted standards is only valid upto a point where you’re not doing anything wrong. So if I’m in Japan I’ll try and fit into the local culture, bow, eat with chopsticks etc because that’s “just the way things are”. There’s no moral component.
But when I have to actually shell out money, you can’t say “it’s just the way things are”. Giving money is not “just a custom”. I have to rationally and logically decide what’s best for me.
In reply to Valerie
Valerie
That is the point of enforcing the law in terms of “who is watching.” A criminal is a criminal, no matter what the crime at hand is. If your employer is not paying you properly, h/she is committing a crime.
If employees are more aware of the situation, as they should be, then we wouldn’t be discussing anything here. THe employees are simply following a status quo rather than using their brains. Again, if $2.13 is being paid at restaurant, whereas Wal mart is paying $9.00, why not work at Wal Mart? I mean it baffles me as to why not go to the higher paying job.
“The way things are?” Well I have no problem with the current system, simply because i’m not REQUIRED to pay you a tip. It doesn’t affect me, however it affects you. YOU should fight for better wages. I’m enjoying everything so far. YOu cannot accept this “that is the way it is.” Slavery was also “the way it was” as was Jim Crowe and Apartheid.
Ryan–good points. I agree to disagree with you, however. Abolishing minimum wage is a very effective means to allow for larger markets to thrive. We have dollars 0-9 that are being unpaid. Think about this: wouldn’t unemployment decrease if minimum wage were to have been abolished? You will have entire sectors opening up to the market that have yet to be seen.
I don’t mind paying more for food either. You know what will happen? Let us say that all wait staff suddenly make the market value of $9/hour. Food prices go up. You know what happens in capitalism? Down the street, somebody will open a restaurant and figure out a way to give you cheaper, tastier food, putting the other restaurant out of business. Then what will happen? They will become more profitable, perhaps even increase their prices. Then another restaurant will open and do the same thing. C’mon guys we see this all the time. Sears was the biggest retailer in the United States. Where are they now? Suffering to Wal Mart, who is competing with Target.
Capitalism works. Let it work. Let the employers figure out the wages. Leave the consumer out of it. Let the consumer enjoy your establishment without having to worry about your wages. The consumer will return much more regularly and refer others.
Why not work at wal-mart? Well, because the reward is greater than the risk for me. I have a chance to make more than minimum wage by working hard and really shining. Also, I genuinely like what I do.
Again, asking me to fight my employer is just unrealistic. You admit that the employer is committing a crime, and yet you encourage this behavior by patronizing their establishment and the industry as a whole.
“But when I have to actually shell out money, you can’t say “it’s just the way things are”.”
Yes…yes, I can. It’s generally understood by most that you tip 15-20% in America. Now, don’t get me wrong. I completely understand all of you who feel you should be removed from the immediate process of paying a wage. Until the system changes though, you are hurting people.
In reply to Valerie
Valerie, but at the same time, the tipping sytem is hurting the CONSUMER. Why is it ok to hurt the consumer? Why is it that the waiter/tress is always the one getting hurt?
Slavery was apart of a status quo, but that was fought to get fixed, right?
I patronize the restaurants simply because I’m not legally required to tip and I am not getting hurt by the system. It means nothing to me. If I don’t leave a tip, nothing will happen to me legally. If you do something, such as spit in my food, that in itself is illegal and, therefore, can be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
I am not aware if the employer is commiting the crime in the first place. You are making an assumption that ALL restaurant owners/managers are committing such crimes. Since I live in California, that already is not the case, since the staff is being paid minimum. Just to make an analogy, how do you know if the fruit you eat has not been picked by an illegal immigrant worker making $2/hour no tip? Can you gurantee it? That is how crime works.
The fact that you ADMIT that the risk is bigger than the reward tells me that wait staff have a sense of entitlement over other minimum wage workers. Meaning you make more than the typical minimum wage worker AND complain if you don’t receive the tips from me. So what gives? If the reward is already so great, why even complain if I don’t tip? Why complain if anyone doesn’t tip? I forgot, it is because the current status quo HELPS YOU more than it hurts you. You make more profit, your employer doesn’t have to report it AND the consumer feels the pain.
A custom is something like using chopsticks in China or taking off your shoes in a Middle Eastern household. A tip, however, DIRECTLY affects my finances. It DIRECTLY affects my wallet. These types of customs I shouldn’t have to deal with, as they are oppressive and burdensome.
In reply to Common Sense
“Meaning you make more than the typical minimum wage worker AND complain if you don’t receive the tips from me”
Nah.. Just about every Friday and Saturday night I am left with several walk outs from my bar and I cannot add a tip to their tab. I don’t complain, it comes with the territory.
I’m here talking about this because it’s interesting but more so because I feel for a percentage of wait staff out there that actually are being hurt by people who don’t tip. Those working solely slow lunch shifts or in areas of the country where bad tipping is notorious.
I think you’re mistaken when you say my employer doesn’t have to report it. Everyone makes these assumptions that every server is running out of there with fist fulls of untraceable cash. It’s just not true. Our sales will show what our tips are estimated to be. All credit card tips go through the POS. Any server under declaring is only hurting themselves when it comes to credit, loans and unemployment.
I wouldn’t say the “consumer feels the pain”. Maybe you, Bhagwad and small percentage of others. In my experience, most people either don’t question the way it works or are happy to leave a tip.
But again, keep on keeping on. In the grand scheme of things, you not leaving a tip won’t be the end of the world. Still won’t take the sting away when your server wonders what he/she did wrong, though.
In reply to Valerie
Oh, one more thing though.. I kind of have to disagree when you say the consumer gets hurt. The consumer makes a choice to dine out. It’s a luxury.
Now..I know. Your rebuttal will be “but you make the choice to be a server”. Sometimes it’s the only choice. I really don’t know what else I’d be doing with my life right now if it weren’t for this.
In reply to Valerie
Valerie that’s the key point. “Until the system changes you’re hurting people”. I agree with that 100%. People that say you need to fight the government or your employer (and it’s not their problem) are naive. That’s like saying that when the blacks were freed, and granted suffrage, they should have done it alone, and whites shouldn’t have helped. The idea of “it’s not my problem” is complete crap. If we want the system to change (especialy for you non-tippers) you should voice out WITH the servers. Get equal minmum wage (or abolish minmum wage whatever) and get this thing solved so nobody gets hurt.
Common Sense just as a side note I’m about as Libertarian as they come. So I do agree with a lot of what you say but think about this… If minmum wage were abolished, and a servers wage were deiced by tips, isn’t that textbook capitalism? Wages dictated by the demand of the consumer? I think fixed wages (as you said) is not Capitalist at all. But what we have now, is a system where you have the power to choose… Im not saying this system is right or wrong but it’s clearly benefeicial to the effecient servers. If anybody tips out of “guilt” that is their problem. Nobody is forcing a tip. The idea if a server being able to earn extra (or nothing) to me is very capitalist. To me even now a servers wage is more capitalist than most jobs… Thats how they make so much money regardless of the complaining I hear from trolling servers that post on this page (not everybody anyway. Many pro-tippers I have heard here are at least reasonable).
In reply to Ryan
the problem is Ryan is we have a mixed system. If it were ALL tips and nothing else, perhaps we would decide how much to pay the restaurant bill. Unfortunately it isn’t how it works.
i should also ask, why are restaurants only granted this? Other professions such as, say a Best Buy associate not receive a tip? Aren’t they serving us?
In terms of the capitalist point of view, service is subjective. If the server thoroughly believes she is doing a great job, I might think she is doing a lousy job.
Also, why 15%?
Let me just put it this way:
70s–spare change
80s–10%
90s–15%
2000s–20%
2010s (in NYC)–25%
What’s next? a 40% tip? Why are the accepted tips increasing as the decades come by us? Why not a fixed dollar amount? Why not auto grat?
In reply to Common Sense
What law says you have to pay anything? That’s why i’m saying this talk about “capitalism” is far from thr point. Nobody says you need to tip 10%, or 40%, it’s suggested that’s all. In the end you’re still free to pick. Capitalism and free markets are all about less laws, less government, and more choice. I’m not saying our current system is capitalist, but tipping has more in common than capitalism, than most of what we still have left today.
But you’re point is exactly what my previous point was… It’s a mixed system and impossible to debate fairly at all…
In reply to Ryan
fair enough–the mix system is why it makes it difficult.
With that in mind, i will tip as I please. no more percentages.
In reply to Ryan
For me, it’s a question of who demands it. Sure, helping others is good and generous. We all do it. But if you look at the tone of some of the servers here, you see help and generosity being demanded as if it’s their god given right. That I cannot condone and will not support.
The fight is primarily the waiters. Demand that others fight with them and I for one will ignore it. No one demands my efforts. To make matters worse, several servers on this thread have demanded that I appeal to the government alone alone without their help! As if this fight is not theirs and mine alone!
It’s not my fight. They cannot demand my help and then complain of me being heartless when I laugh them off.
Also, comparing waiters who are free to protest and change the system to blacks who were slaves is a bit of a false analogy.
In reply to bhagwad
Well let’s not take that too literatly. Maybe it’s a little extreme but there are analogies that can be made to a far less degree that would make more sense. I don’t mean to imply that those two are anywhere close to being the same, but it’s kind of like your comparison to a person and a conveyor belt in a way… And in the 60’s the blacks were free to protest and they did during the civil rights movement and they didnt do it alone.
Let me be more reasonable rather than giving extreme analogies. When you go to a full service restaurant the server is counting on you to keep them employed. If you dont get them up to at least the minmum, no employer will keep them. I can’tt hink of one one employer that wants to pay extra labor when they don’t have to. I’m not saying tipping should be automatic but if the job gets done I feel like payment is due. 15% is what you should assume walking in the door, and 15% is what you should pay provided they brough you everything you need correctly and in a timley manner.
To tell the truth I agree with you as far as your veiws of not tipping, near 100% at that. But “it’s not my battle” is sort of a cop out in a way. If you dont tip them, and the employer needs to pay, they wont have a job very long. There are certain customs of “it’s just the way things are” that do hurt others if they are not followed. I’m not saying it’s right but it’s a fact. Are you required to fight for servers? Of course not. Are you a bad person if you dont tip? Way far from it… But you do heavly affect somebody elses livlihood.
I’m not telling you that when you go to a restauant you “need to do what is right”. I’m saying though that perhaps you should think about it at least. Or if not, don’t dine-in, or voice in and support them… That’s just an idea though. I’m sure in your life, you were glad that people helped you out when you were put in a unfair situation where some similar expectation was in place.
But demand? I’m certainly not demanding anything of you. But as a person i’m sure if you were in a similar situation (money or not) you’d want and need others going to bat for you… or if not giving you a little support… And in this case it’s a tip.
I think tipping is complete crap to begin with. But the “mighty” servers arent changing that anytime soon without help. So being that as it may i’ll throw down 15% and know before hand, that is the gratuity charge. And if service sucks I wont pay. And if I dont want to pay 15% I wont dine in (which is often the case).
But like I said i’m not saying your wrong neccesarily, I just think you’re over analyzing this. You do know the upfront costs because it’s all in the menu. JUst add 15% on top of what you order and it’s just the same as it being on the bill… but in this case you can opt out of it if you choose.
In reply to Ryan
I do see a lot of demands being made. Half an hour ago I received this comment from a waiter on my post: http://www.bhagwad.com/blog/2013/personal/tipping-one-thousand-comments.html/comment-page-2/#comment-16433 . To quote:
“If you don’t want to tip, you can ask the govt. to change our wages.”
Note how the burden is being placed on ME to fight for their wages! And demanded. They didn’t say “Join us in our fight.” No – they’re saying it’s my problem and that I should be the one to fight for them!
Can you blame me for telling them to go stuff themselves?
In reply to Ryan
he’s right Ryan. The 15% fixed rate ALREADY is a demand in itself. IN capitalism, don’t we deserve a choice to tip 0%, 12%, 50%, pi%? That in itself is arbitrary, isn’t it? Capitalism is about choice, but also about laws–market force laws. For example, what if a restaurant opens and requires absolutely 0% tips? In fact, they forbid it? The laws of the free market have allowed such an establishment and now customers have a CHOICE. There are many restaurants like that here in California–Pasadena and San Diego have a few of these establishments.
Remember, in capitalism, social ills AREN’T my problem. People will be wealhty and people will be not so wealthy. I cannot concern myself as a consumer with every employee i might in life. What good will that do? It eliminates my spending power by ensuring others’ wages. What kind of poor choice is that?
In reply to Common Sense
And would it be any different if they slapped you with a 15% gratuity charge? I can promise that if this became a nationwide thing, you would see some kind or increase accross the board. The only difference we are arguing here is wethher or not they make it mandatory and tell you up front, or leave you the option…
Which brings me back to my point. If we do something as easy brining everybody up to the same minimum wage (like in Cali) you’d see this subject disintergrate. You said it yourself that Cali is doing new things now based off that idea rightg? Unfortunatley the other 49 states haven’t followed suit… is it your problem? No, but it’s somebody elses if you dont pay the gratuity charge.
In reply to Ryan
I wouldn’t mind an up front 15% gratuity charge. I’m a consumer. I don’t want to think sometimes. Put it all on the receipt. This way, I’m contractually obliged to pay. If I don’t, you can then call the authorities to place me under arrest.
This subject certainly would disintegrate if all were either at minimum wage or the min wage laws were abolished.
Cali isn’t the only state that is forbidding tips. I’ve seen some Nevada restaurants that just add a 15% auto grat to ALL its patrons because it pays its employees minimum wage. So what?
In the financial arena, I only care about myself. I want the best service. I want the best food. I want the best for my money. I care nothing for others. Obviously this isn’t how I truly am, however if ALL arenas of business went by such maxims, we would see better quality products and service across the board. This is why entitlements, such as tips, are ruining today’s business economy. Again, why should I if it isn’t legal? Tips are voluntary, therefore I should have the freedom to voluntarily tip whatever amount of money at my own discretion without any backlash from wait staff or society. It seems that us non-tippers are oppressed like a band of lepers. America itself is a free nation. Let me freely spend my voluntary money as I please.