It never fails to shock me how a tip is demanded in the US. People simply refuse to listen to reason when we (yes, there are others!) tell them that leaving a tip isn’t necessary. Well, I’m hoping for too much here, but if you’re a waiter, here are 5 reasons why I will try my best not to give any money to you and why the reasons for tipping are crappy.
1. You act as if you’re my best friend
Just leave me alone ok? I don’t want to bloody chit chat with you. I want food. FOOD! Get it? It’s a restaurant. I go there to eat. I go because I want either Italian food, Chinese Food or something else which I can’t get in a McDonald’s. So I come to a restaurant to fulfill my cravings for it. I will pay for what I value – food. Not you.
Christ, you offend me – kneeling down next to my table, pretending to like me and chatting as if you’re my best friend when it’s obvious that all you’re after is the tip! I’m not a bloody money bag you know. I will pay the bill which includes the cost of the food, the environment and the salaries of the people involved – nothing more.
The only way to get money out of me that I don’t have to legally pay is by prying it out of my cold dead hands…
Bottom line: I don’t want to know your name, or interact with you for any longer than I have to in order to place my order. As far as I’m concerned, you’re the equivalent of a conveyor belt that brings me my food and a computer into which I input my order. Of course, I won’t be rude. But don’t expect me to interact with you any more than I would with some stranger.
Image Credit: cafemama
2. You don’t get paid enough
And this is my problem how exactly? It’s astonishing that customers are expected to make up for your employer’s cheapness in not paying you a decent wage. Please include the full cost in everyone’s bill thank you very much. I’ll pay it because I have to and the charge is there for me to see.
What’s really funny here is that no one seems to criticize the employers! All criticism is reserved for non tipping customers instead of the owners of the restaurant for not paying a decent wage. Wtf! Could it possibly be because you guys know you can make much more by tips and under report your income to the IRS?
3. You’ll spit in my food if I don’t tip you?
And I’ll shoot your kid if you don’t give me a million dollars. Seriously, am I even hearing this right? You’re actually using the threat of blackmail to make me pay you? Well as long as you’re openly claiming to be a criminal it’s all right I guess.
Fortunately that’s why I prefer buffets. Listen apart from it being illegal, this shows your poor integrity. But if you spit in someone’s food because they didn’t give you money you didn’t earn, then you’re a loser and deserve to be a waiter for the rest of your life.
4. Bringing me my food isn’t worthy of being paid extra
Did you cook it? Did you invent it? No. You picked it up and brought it to me. While it might not be easy, there are plenty of jobs which are much worse – shop floor workers for example. And I’ve been a shop floor manager, so I know. Face it – compared to other jobs, being a waiter is unskilled. You get paid what the market will think your services are worth. You don’t deserve more for your work over and above what your employer should pay you.
5. Money doesn’t grow on trees
I expect you to be grateful and pray for me at night if I tip you 10%. Be happy I gave you anything at all. I worked for the money in my wallet and by giving you some I didn’t have to, I’m doing you a favor. Learn to remember that when people give you something they don’t need to, it’s a favor. You don’t complain that they didn’t give you more!
By the way, the same thing above applies to all professions that demand tips including those on cruise liners.
So now that you understand why I won’t give you money you don’t deserve, stop with the “oh how could you?” attitude. I can. And I will.
Update: Here’s a rebuttal of the many silly justifications for tipping that people have given in the comments section.
tipping is not something I had to rationalize, unlike you. I am simply grateful for what I have. You wish to call it blackmail, bribery and akin to abusing women. I cannot reason out of you what was not reasoned in. Stereotype of cheap Indians have to start somewhere, why not you Sir? If you are happy with that, fine. Just hope you never need help on the side of a road at night or god forbid choke on your meal. As for my patriotism: ” I had rather have a plain, russet-coated Captain, that knows what he fights for, and loves what he knows, than that which you call a Gentle-man and is nothing else.” Oliver Cromwell. Sleep in peace tonight bhagwad and know that better men are protecting you whether you wish it or not.
In reply to redleg
It seems to me that you’re willing to tolerate anything under the guise of “it’s American”. Well, good for you! Sit back and enjoy and even be grateful for being ripped off. You’re obviously happy about it, so what more is there to say? It’s American after all right? :D
Oh, and please go ahead and stereotype Indians all you want. What you do is none of my business. Fortunately I’m not going to stereotype all Americans judging by what you say. Cause you know…I’m an adult and stereotyping is childish.
But maybe you think that’s an “American thing” as well! Sweet :D
In reply to bhagwad
ah, the sweet serenity of the false intellectual…
In reply to redleg
Annnd of course you reply with more name calling.
Seriously, did I even expect anything different since that’s exactly what you’ve been doing this long?
Just curious – are you even going to try and engage in logical debate?
Actually never mind…don’t bother replying. You’ll just name call some more and pollute this already bloated comment thread. Why expect a leopard to change his spots?
In reply to redleg
Redleg
I’m American and I don’t tip. What about me? DOn’t go off topic and start dissing Indians man.
you do know that Slavery was an American institution, rigth?
Tipping IS optional. Here in California, wait staff already make minimum wage, so why would I have to tip them?
Wal Mart staff also make minimum wage many times, so why don’t they receive a tip? The Best Buy kid makes minimum wage, yet he was INCREDIBLY helpful to me the other day I went. Why don’t they receive a tip? They may receive commission, but hey that is their employer’s JOB to do so.
Stop being a typical American jerk Red Leg. You’re making guys like me look bad.
Sorry Bhagwad. Another typical arrogant American.
I should let you know that tipping is simply another entitlement fed to the American people by the liberal status quo we have here. It is quite ridiculous that everybody receives a “fair wage.” Work is work. Wages are wages, nothing else.
In reply to Common Sense
CS
I didn’t say anything about tipping having to do with Indians. I said way to make the stereotype true. I also started this by stating I have no respect for someone who doesn’t tip and stated my reasons. Those are my own. You have yours. They also make you cheap regardless of your ethnicity. Much like the poster. I am proud of what I do and I am grateful for the society I live in– and when I go out to a restaurant and someone gives me service I like to tip them. That doesn’t mean you have to. But if you don’t it gives us the right to say you are cheap. Rightly or wrongly. That has absolutely nothing to do with slavery but the ad-hominem attacks, strawman arguments and other liberal ploys to show your superiority over the plebicite reveal your intentions. See you at the next party meeting, Comrade. And CS, its not hard to make you look bad.
touchy…touchy
deleting comments now? Another European custom?
In reply to redleg
to beg my pardon– my pages weren’t loading correctly
In reply to redleg
what makes us Americans so much better than the rest of the world, Red Leg?
lets do some math
400 million Americans
6.6 billion non-Americans.
Does that mean that all non-American customs practiced by 6.6 billion other people in the world are all WRONG?
They don’t have tips in Norway. They also don’t have minimum wage. Wait staff make pretty low amounts in Norway, yet I’ve seen the service, and it is FAR better than American wait staff who do receive much better wages. We’re talking about European people. Let me re-phrase. We’re talking about WHITE people that are receiving poor wages compared to their American counterparts yet are performing the work happily and excellently. Why, you may ask? They would get FIRED if they don’t, that is it.
Again, i’ll as you RedLeg, in Cailfornia, all wait staff make minimum wage. This is BEFORE tips. Does this mean I have to still tip in California?
In reply to Common Sense
RedLeg, i meant i’ll “ask” you.
In reply to Common Sense
Kalifornia is not a good example of America. Why is your population fleeing the golden state? You like Norway– go to Norway. (Fun Norwegian fact– they fought like tigers for 30 days when the Nazis invaded in WWII– Prime Minister Quisling anyone?) I like America, and I like Americans. As Winston Churchill said, “The Americans will always do the right thing… after they’ve exhausted all the alternatives.” I have already said I don’t think much of Europeans and a look through the pages of history make a good enough case. America has made its mistakes too, and paid in blood for many of them. Good men have died for your ability to speak and do mostly as you please, not as a King commands, but as you wish. Some of our customs may not make sense, but they are still ours. We are citizens (for now) and not subjects. You are certainly free to not tip and boast about how morally superior you and you ilk are and I am equally free to point out that you are cheap. Being an American means I don’t have to care if you tip in Kalifornia, but am free to call you a cheap bastard when you don’t. I enjoy going out for a good meal and a beer with friends and tipping well for I realize that it is a privilege for me to be free to do so. When you have lived away from civilization on the raggedy edge, eating institutional meals off cardboard you might feel the same way I do. Then again you might not. But you don’t have to right to tell me I’m morally wrong to do so simply because you are cheap. I am proud to be one of 313.914 million Americans, and not one of other 6 billion. Why? I have seen the other parts of this god-forsaken world where their cultures and politics keep them down. Proudly, an arrogant American and thank the good lord for us.
In reply to Common Sense
I think making blanket statements about the service in X country and Y country is really silly. I also wish you’d stop bringing up California, it shouldn’t be a part of this conversation. I think what most people argue for, are those making $2.13 and similar per hour, and nothing more. Fuck what the law says, server minimum is what gets paid regardless of how many tips one makes. I assure you.
Tell me you don’t care and it’s not your problem. Tell me we should all mobilize for better wages. The fact still remains that in the meanwhile, you are contributing to the bastardized system when you go out to eat and don’t tip.
In reply to Valerie
Valerie, you make a lot of sense, however, as a more libertarian, equal wages doesn’t work. I say equal and not “fair” just because the term fair is subjective.
why should big brother be able to tell us how much we should make at minimum? That should be between the employer and the employee.
Lets take a scenario and this will show you how true market capitalism is best. There is a shopkeeper. He wants to hire a new employee for $1/hour, as this is legal. Nobody comes on board. Why you may ask? Because the rest of the shop market pays, on average, $6/hour. This shopkeeper wants to maintain its competitive edge. So what the shopkeeper will do is hire a new employee at $7/hour providing he is well experienced.
If we maintain this level of market capitalism we wouldn’t need a tipping system. The employer would take care of all things. If we did want to tip, we could do it based on OUR own desire and not a fixed percentage. So if one wants to tip 5%, the employee would be just as happy as when anotehr tips 50%.
Why am I bastardizing the system, if the system itself is VOLUNTARY? how can a voluntary system ask for a fixed percentage (20%)? I mean c’mon, shoulndn’t that percentage be up to us?
If there is a fixed percentage, shouldn’t it be placed on the receipt (ie auto grat)? That would at least remove the discomfort between server and consumer.
BTW Valerie, I highly disagree with your points, but thanks for actually staying on point and not making a fool of yourself, unlike others on this thread :) Nothing wrong with disagreeing.
In reply to Common Sense
I can’t help but think that abolishing minimum wage will just lead to companies taking advantage of people desperate for work. The restaurant industry, for example, would probably opt to pay their employees nothing at all and say “make your money in tips”. (Which is basically what happens now, as the laughable server minimum is eaten up by taxes). But under your lawless hypothetical situation, I could see Walmart, for example, drop everyone to $2/hr or so. Anything they could do to make a better profit. They will find some poor bastards that will accept $2 an hour because they have no other choice. I’m no economist, but I just don’t see corporations being overly generous when they go unregulated.
When I said bastardizing the system, I meant taking advantage. I still maintain my stance that dining out is a privilege and a luxury. And tipping is something that comes with the territory. The loophole is that you could choose not to tip, and not be penalized. But I don’t understand what you’re saying about “fixed”. The 20% thing is just a guideline. The percentage IS up to you..
As far as a higher wage for servers, or a fixed rate tip as part of your bill.. I don’t necessarily disagree with any of that. It’s nice to discuss the possibilities. But we are talking about the reality. And the reality is, that if everyone suddenly became like Bhagwad or yourself and decided not to tip…well, I’d be in trouble.
Let’s actually do that math you were talking about.
Non-American customs cost 90 million people their lives in the last World War. They out-numbered us– does that make it right? Absolutely not.
Communism, practiced by many great nations in the world, has cost conservatively 250-300 million lives over a repugnant history– does a majority practicing it make it right? Absolutely not.
You want non-American customs don’t come to America and expect us to conform to you. Tipping though is altogether heinous and should be abolished immediately as it has cost a sum total of 0 lives in a fairly long time. Except you and a lot of others don’t like it. /sarc off
Americans are not better than the rest of the world. We are exceptional as being the OLDEST continuously operating government for 200 plus years has proven. I am sorry if you can’t handle that. I don’t understand NASCAR and tractor pulls either. But I am not against you doing them as long as you are so inclined and don’t do them on my property.
Your an asshole…
In reply to Sara
Sadly Sara, I agree. But it doesn’t also mean I’m not right. You are entitled to your opinion but not your own facts. Was it because I don’t get NASCAR or tractor pulls? Or that I was talking about your beloved Mao?
In reply to redleg
RedLeg…don’t argue with “customs” as they relate to business, finance and economics. That simply doesn’t make sense. Slavery was part of the “American way.” In fact, the US built its initial power based on the power of its slave force. Does that make it right? What about Jim Crowe?
RedLeg–you can call me cheap as much as you want. Your opinion means nothing to me. As far as I’m concerned, you could simply be an encoded binary system that is displaying its opinions on this thread. I’ve never met you, and probably never will, so lets stick to tipping please.
Arrogance does not help the conversation. It simply makes the rest of the world acknowledge the stereotype that Americans are arrogant. In other words, smart people like Valerie and I look bad because of people like you.
Again LETS STICK TO TIPPING.
California is one of the biggest economies in the world. Trust me, the population ain’t fleeing. What is great about California, particularly SO Cal, is the libertarian mindset out here. We don’t follow “customs” but at the same time, we hate liberal business mentalities.
I will always bring up California because it is prime example of how wait staff are unfairly entitlted over the rest of the workforce.
Also remember, wait staff make minimum wage if their tips do not match. If your employer does not do that, he is committing a crime.
BTW, arrogance is a sin. Thanking the Lord for a sin is not exactly a good idea. Just letting you know RedLeg :
In reply to Common Sense
a lot of American customs don’t make sense:
overly powerful unions
minimum wage
wage regulation
labor regulation
safety regulation
food/drug regulation (yes i work in the field and trust me it is full of nonsense)
education regulation
the sense of entitlement
the sense of this fake “equality” among gender and race (don’t know why the government feels the need to get involved)
unnecessary spending and taxing
there are many many more. Because of the current status quo, the way of America, RedLeg taht you know and are “proud of” is deteriorating because of the mistakes our parents made.
Lets not get into that topic. Lets stick to tipping. This is an entitlement that, if abolished, will make things much easier for the consumer and the employer/employee.
Remember, it was very American for women not to vote. That was apart of the American “culture.” Should we have continued that?
Again, arrogance is a sin. That is like thanking the Lord that you committed adultery.
In reply to Common Sense
CS– much of the world doesn’t make sense. And the US Census tends to disagree with you that anyone who can is fleeing Kalifornia. To include businesses. The Blue Model is eating itself and highly enjoying the meal. And evidently not tipping either. Getting incoherently angry over tipping and then claiming the moral high ground doesn’t pass the logic test. I disagree with your notion of not tipping and highly doubt that changing this one way of doing business will change the rest of the business restaurant world. I do not like the way our Country is headed, as it seems to be headed into the spiral of European demographic suicide and cultural death. Getting back to our roots of small government and getting the government out of our lives is a good start– rereading the Constitution is a good way to get there. My point was, and remains, be grateful for what you have…it will not always be there when we need it. My time abroad in service to my country has taught me to savor the small things. I cannot right every wrong and correct every misdeed. I can occasionally kill some really evil men and do good where I can as a part of well armed team, but I cannot change it all. I am grateful for the ability to go out for a good meal with friends and family and then tip my server for a well provided meal. You keep telling me to stick to tipping and then do anything but…continue to change the subject to women’s suffrage? Hyperbole and strawmen much? You really should have paid attention during your logic and critical reasoning classes, if you took them at all in between womyn studies. Arrogance is your opinion– my position is it isn’t arrogance if you can do it. And highly competant people tend to look arrogant when faced with those who can’t. The good Lord helps those who help themselves, not those who wait for the State and FEMA to arrive.
In reply to redleg
hey bro, trust me, the blue model truly is ruining the nation, I can’t agree with you more.
This is why I’m against fixed percetnage tipping and minimum wage. Let the markets take care of wages. Let employers take care of wages. The consumers should have nothing to do with wages.
If wage regulation were to be abolished, perhaps we would see FAIR pricing at all forms of commerce–service, manufacturing, medical, R&D etc.
Trust me, companies aren’t leaving California. Most of our imports come in through LA/Long Beach and most of our companies export through LA/Long Beach. ALso, most millionaires live in places such as LA, San Diego and San Francisco.
I should note RedLeg, just because someone DISAGREES with you, does that make them incorrect? Are they a bad person?
Let us not bring religion into this subject. If you are a Christian, there are plenty of good hard working Christians in South America that are suffering malaria, typhoid, scurvy and are at the hands of drug war lords. So let us not get into that.
Hyperbole–great way to make an argument. Strawmen–a popular word used on Yahoo comemnts.
Please stick to tipping. This is what this board is about :)
In reply to Common Sense
Hyperbole– exaggeration for sake of effect. A good way to invalidate your argument.
Strawman- is one of the best-named fallacies, because it is memorable and vividly illustrates the nature of the fallacy. Imagine a fight in which one of the combatants sets up a man of straw, attacks it, then proclaims victory. All the while, the real opponent stands by untouched.
I don’t mind if someone disagrees with me- I enjoy it. It doesn’t make you evil or bad or a horrible person. When you attribute the same to me, you invite it in return.
The government has a minimal role in business according to the Constitution– it should not have have over-riding pride of place that is now attributed to it by being able to choose winners and losers, which it does…poorly. I wouldn’t have a problem with it if it could choose well, but it doesn’t, ever. The founding fathers were correct on this score.
As for Kalifornia– you may continue to live in your bubble. There are plenty of millionaires left in the state– true– but anyone who can is running away– note the net population and business loss in the last 2 Census reports. Californians with a little help from Uncle Sam are killing the Golden Goose– to California’s credit it took them over 40 years to do it but kill it they have. Simply because you cannot conceive of an alternative to shipping to LA/Long Beach does not mean it will ever be so. And shipping is the least of CA’s problems. Just because your millionaires live there now, doesn’t mean you won’t chase them off too. It is only a matter of time. It is even worse because that state has the resources to fix their problems but will not do it. Instead you seem to focus on earth-shattering topics like tipping. So leave the Drug War to the adolescents, you can’t even handle the simple math of fiscal insolvency.
RedLeg
I think we all need to calm down and stick on topic. No need for name calling and the such. No one here is a Commie or a NASCAR driver or anything like that.
TIpping is voluntary. You call me cheap, I call myself fiscally responsible. Nothing wrong with disagreeing.
Valerie is making good points, I just happen to completely disagree with her. No need to call her anything bad. I simply feel that the current status quo has a major entitlement issue. Don’t play the “holier than thou” card comrade.
BTW, i’m a big time libertarian and I do not agree with the liberal points at all. With that said RedLeg, does that make liberals bad people? Are they somehow sinful? If all people were like you, wouldnt that make the US a dictatorship?
Lets stick with tipping–it doesn’t make sense. California pays its staff minimum wage just fine and the prices aren’t marked up. We have the highest concentration of restaurants in the state, and we pay them just fine (by market).
Tipping is probably more communist than anything–everybody gets a fixed percentage. A truly capitalistic point of view would be everything would get whatever they get, that is it.
In reply to Common Sense
CS– see above brother– you wander too far afield to stay on topic. Good try though.
Please put a stop to this B.S. that tipped workers only survive on their tips.
They are supposed to earn at least the Federal Minimum Wage.
If the total of your hourly wage and tips are not meeting the FMW , then it is your employer’s responsibility to make up the difference.
If your employer is NOT making up the difference, then you need to report that employer and see that they are disciplined for it.
Find out how tipped employees are REALLY paid at the link below, and stop taking the word of some whining server who got a tiny tip as gospel truth.
http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm
In reply to Deebers
Deebers–THANK YOU!! I’ve actually been trying to find that link! :)
thanks.
Valerie stated earlier that employers do not do this. Well that is called breaking the law. If you go over the speed limit, you are breakign the law and liable to being punished. If you stab someone, you are breaking the law.
If you don’t pay someone their wages, you are breaking the law.
Guys, this is from the labor departments website, so please remember that.
Now with this in mind, what’s the big deal? If I don’t tip, you are going to make minimum wage anyways, right?
In reply to Common Sense
“If I don’t tip, you are going to make minimum wage anyways, right?”
It would only be because of the people in this world who conduct themselves accordingly. But certainly not from my employer.
In reply to Deebers
This is going to sound really ignorant, but with the money that flies around daily between credit cards, cash tips, tip out to staff.. you’d have to be really on top of things to even calculate when you were getting screwed. Remember, who knows if the employer determines whether they compensate you for bad tips per shift.. per week.. per month? It varies. There is not much information about it.
It’s a high risk job when it comes to finances. But so many people do it because the opportunity is there to really earn. And also because you can come into it as an unskilled worker. (Of course it takes a certain kind of person to really hack it..)
Sorry, but many people working these jobs are in no position to be reporting their employer. Nothing is “anonymous”. I’ve heard of people who have caused a stir either with corporate or otherwise and were let go.
Stop going to restaurants and terrorizing the staff. Just TIP. Atleast 10% for goodness sake. It’s a LUXURY to dine out. If you are bitching about how much it is to tip someone, then maybe you ought to take that $25 and bring it to the grocery store.
In reply to Valerie
I guess what puzzles me is that you reserve more anger for customers who don’t tip rather than for the employer who in failing to perform their duty by making up minimum wage are criminals.
You should be abusing restaurant owners and calling them creeps well before you turn your wrath towards anyone else.
In reply to bhagwad
I guess its easier to feel anger toward customers because the sting is greater in that moment when you’ve done a great job and you are not rewarded for it. Also, things have been the way they are for so long, you almost accept it. But you are certainly right. I think most restaurant owners in general are very greedy and the biggest foe of all would be the National Restaurant Association. I’m equally as disgusted with the way the system works.
YOUR A FUCKING DUMB ASS BLUNTLY RUDE ASSHOLE! PEOPLE LIKE YOU DESERVE TO JUST STAY HOME AND NEVER GO OUT TO EAT!!!! IF YOU CANT COOK< STAY AT HOME! DUHHHHHHHHHHHH
In reply to waitress
don’t bite the hands that feed. Again, i live in California, so don’t complain. If I don’t tip, the staff still makes minimum.
Again, your wages mean nothing to us as the consumer, so please, stop with the obscenities.
Valerie, let me make some points about minimum wage:
Most American workers do not make minimum wage in the first place. Most American workers make, say $45,000 a year, which is above minimum wage. Let us say minimum wage were abolished. You are not going to suddenly see a drop in wages. What will happen is the MARKET will dictate what your job is TRULY worth. So let us say a shop owners wants to compete with Wal Mart. That owner can hire 10 workers at $5/hour now. ALl of those workers agree to the wage and work as expected. With minimum wage, this owner would never be able to compete with Wal Mart.
Let us take another scenario. Let us say another shop owner B wants to compete. He puts up ads for $3/hour. The thing now is, nobody responds. WHy? Because another shop owner is hiring his workers at $5/hour. This forces the shop owner B to change his wages from $3/hour to $6/hour. Now more people resopnd.
Minimum wage abolishment benefits corporations, small business AND employees. Inflation would remain much lower than it is now (currently we see 4-5%. You could see inflation at no more than 3% with such abolishments). ENTIRE markets would open up to people making less than minimum wage. Prices overall would decrease. Labor would be cheaper. Unemployment would be around 2% only (versus 7.7%).
The common man like you and me would also be able to employee people. Lets take you, Valerie. You are a normal person, but want to have someone come to your house daily and clean it. You can afford a total of $35/week. You put out an ad. Somebody is now able to clean your house for $35/week. With this payment, you would receive so-so service, since $35/week would be on the lower end of the spectrum. Though the service would not be as good as say a person that charges $200/week, you are at least involved in the market. The spectrum of the market force allows even you, a normal person, to be involved in employment. It is a win-win. A house cleaner with relatively low experience is employed at $35/week. You are able to have your house cleaned and employ somebody. If you ever acquire hire wages, you could potentially go back to the market and find someone else who cleans your house better for $60/hour. Some more wealthy people can find somebody at the highest end of the market spectrum who does tremendous work at cleaning and pay them $600-$1000/week. Again, this end of the spectrum entails workers who are EXTREMELY experienced, thorough at house cleaning and give the consumer what h/she pays for.
How is this a bad thing?
Wal Mart simply won’t drop people to $2/hour because they understand that a lack of staff means a loss of profit on THEIR behalf. Also, if Wal Mart drops their staff to let us say $2/hour, another shop owner can easily draw in those disgruntled workers by offering them $3/hour. This would force those employees to leave Wal Mart. Wal Mart would have to change their wages from $3/hour to say $8/hour just to attract the best employees.
Back to tipping: If minimum wages were abolished, the wait staff can essentially be paid ONLY what the agreed to with their employer. So an inexperienced waiter may only receive $2/hour while an experienced waiter would receive $15/hour. Since the market is now much more widely available to ALL business types, and not just Red Lobter or Olive Garden, the market would allow for more small-ended business type restaurants to open. This would FORCE the large corporations such as the Darden corp (management of Red Lobster) to re-think their business strategy. They would have to compete with mom/pap restaurants. This is a win-win for the consumer–potentially lower costs on them, no more ambiguous fees, and better food. How is this bad?
In reply to Common Sense
Abolishing minimum wage would be a horrible thing to happen. Minimum wage is in place for a reason. It is a guideline saying that workers need to make THIS much money an hour AT LEAST to survive.
If minimum wage were abolished, it would only benefit the employers, not the employees.
Right now in Florida, employers are required to assure that their staff are making 7.67/hr. If minimum wage were abolished, employers could ALL lower their prices. Yes, they could raise their wages to compete for the better workforce, but who’s to say that business A will try to pay their workers $2.50/hr, and to be “competitive”, Business B will pay workers a whole $3/hr!!! Not much better, but still more.
The way the economy is now WITH minimum wage, businesses are still able to be competitive, but all the while are still REQUIRED to pay their staff a livable wage. Nonetheless, $7/hr is not a lot of money, but someone can afford a cheap lifestyle off of it. But if they were only able to find jobs making $3/hr??? That is absolutely NOT livable.
For some history on minimum wage, the Republican party usually tries to put a cap on it, whereas the Democratic party usually fights for a raise in the wage. Obviously, Republicans want to cap it because the higher the minimum wage goes, the less the big dogs at the top make. I mean, BOO HOO, the head honchos might lose $100,000 out of their multimillion lifestyles by increasing minimum wage. And obviously, Democrats want to raise minimum wage to benefit the employees.
With no minimum wage, the only people who would truly benefit from this is the employers, because they can get away with paying next to nothing to their workers.
And if ALL companies had the option to lower their wages, they SURELY would. Especially considering how many businesses pay minimum wage only because they are legally required to. So ultimately, citizens would need jobs, and if there were no wage standards, than they would be working their lives away for poverty.
You would see the middle class disappear, and the US would quickly turn into a 3rd World Country. You’d have the SUPER rich and powerful, and at the other end of the spectrum, you’d have the people living in squander, shacks and shanty’s, unable to provide a fulfilling life for their families.
Even TALKING about abolishing a required minimum wage would hurt the lower/middle class Americans, which make up the majority of us. What a bunch of nonsense.
In reply to Brittney
Brittney, and I should note that I’m not trying to draw away from the main topic at hand (tipping), nor am I trying to force anyone to believe in the abolishment of minimum wage, but the fact is most Americans are NOT on minimum wage. I make maybe around $30/hour, which is above minimum wage. Obviously, if minimum wage were cut, normal middle class people such as I would not be affected. Most Americans fall into this category. Cutting minimum wage would benefit people like me in order to search for a variety of different things I need–house labor (cleaning etc), service (cooking), and even construction. Again, without minimum wage, we would be absolutely in a situation where “you get what you pay for.” I would be able to afford a cleaning person at my house for $50/week. It wouldn’t be the best service, but it is a service catered to my social-economic needs. If I made, say, $200/hour, I would be able to find a service, that probably costs $2000/week, which is INCREDIBLY efficient and thorough at cleaning the house.
Minimum wage basically prevents dolalsr 1-7 from even being used. Why does the government need to tell me how much I should be making? I made less than minimum wage before (under the table) and I did just fine. Why can’t such LEGAL options be available to people? Cutting the minimum wage would also cut the unemployment percentage in half. So we’d be back to maybe 2% unemployment.
Also, the standard of living costs would decrease, since now we have the markets of dollars 1-7/hour being utilized.
how can you gurantee that somone making $1/hour is poor? Heck, there are some people who live in squalor that make $25-30/hour, so who are YOU to say who is poor?
I should note that minimum wage is more of a benefit to big corporations than small business. How? You actually price out the labor from small business over to the fat cats. Wal Mart can afford 4 cashiers on minimum wage. A small business cannot afford to pay minimum wage to even 1 cashier. Who is benefitting?
Now if I bring this back to tipping, if we have a system where ONLY the employers and employees agree to the set wages, consumers would be happier, food prices would decrease AND we’d see a wider variety of different types of restaurants–differnet levels of fast food, casual fast, casual dining, romantic, etc. A wider spectrum of markets would open up.
Now lets bring it back to tipping even more. With all of this in mind, as much as i HATE minimum wage, wait staff earn minimum wage. Their employers’ are supposed to pay the wait staff minimum wage if the employees do not earn it. So why do I even have to worry to tip if they are guranteed minimum wage in the first place anyway?
Valerie said it herself, 20% is a guideline, yet why do I get the stink eye if I leave a 10% tip? It is voluntary right? Wasn’t a 10% tip fully acceptable in 1991? Why has it changed now? “social customs?” Give me a break.
Again my view on minimum wage is a view shared by many. You don’t have to believe it, but just as example, take a visit to Norway. They have incredibly low unemployment, the job force is happy, but they have no minimum wage. A wide variety of labor is able to form as a result.
In reply to Common Sense
Again, I can’t say with complete certainty, but in my experience..counting on your employer to get you to federal minimum is NOT guaranteed.
“Wasn’t a 10% tip fully acceptable in 1991? Why has it changed now?”
You can’t be serious. The cost of living has increased since 1991. If anyone is giving you the stink eye, you ought to give it right back. Lots of servers out there lose sight that a tip is indeed optional. That being said, if I waited on you and you gave me 10%, I would follow up with you before you left to make sure my service is up to standard. That’s another little thing about tip percentage, it is also supposed to be a gauge for how well you enjoyed yourself.
In reply to Valerie
Food prices have also increased with the cost of living so any percentage keeps up with inflation by default. There’s no reason to increase it – ever. If 10% was sufficient at one time, then it ought to be sufficient now.
In reply to bhagwad
I knew someone would mention that. Let’s also talk about how many people’s wages have increased since then, meanwhile tipped employee wage has remained stagnant since the 90s. I believe this is why the percentage has increased. It probably could have stayed at 10% if our wages increased with everyone elses’, but they haven’t.
In reply to Valerie
But you yourself say that the $2.13 is an insignificant portion of the total income of a waiter. The fact that it hasn’t increased doesn’t make a difference to the fact that inflation has already compensated waiters through the years.
In other words, if we increase $2.13 to $4, waiters will then be happy with a 10% tip?
In reply to Common Sense
I hate to agree with CS but his argument against minimum wage is correct
But if you are against tipping and decide to tip 10% we have just established the price of your values. You just don’t want the social disapproval of someone thinking you are cheap. Stick to your ideals and don’t tip if you think its wrong. But own the disapproval. If you are correct in your ideals it is the opposing party that is in the wrong…not so? But instead you have adapted your values to the society around you– and established your price as a prostitute.
It reminds me of GEN Reinwald to an NPR reporter:
This is an extract of an National Public Radio (NPR) interview
between a female broadcaster and US Army Lieutenant General Reinwald
about sponsoring a Boy Scout Troop on his military installation.
Interviewer: “So, LTG Reinwald, what are you going to do with these
young boys on their adventure holiday?”
LTG Reinwald: “We’re going to teach them climbing, canoeing, archery,
and shooting.”
Interviewer: “Shooting! That’s a bit irresponsible, isn’t it?”
LTG Reinwald: “I don’t see why, they’ll be properly supervised on the
range.”
Interviewer: “Don’t you admit that this is a terribly dangerous
activity to be teaching children?”
LTG Reinwald: “I don’t see how, we will be teaching them proper range
discipline before they even touch a firearm.”
Interviewer: “But you’re equipping them to become violent killers.”
LTG Reinwald: “Well, you’re equipped to be a prostitute, but you’re
not one, are you?”
End of the interview
My life experiences have taught me to tip, and tip generously. Yours have not. You don’t like it. I do. That is the sum total of what we are talking about.
In reply to Common Sense
Sorry, I don’t agree with any of your hypothetical situations. You yourself stated “Labor would be cheaper” in your argument, which is exactly what I’m saying. Give corporations the freedom to choose what they will pay people, and they will give them peanuts. You claim that competition between businesses would make wages skyrocket in order to “get the best workers”. Why isn’t this happening now, then? What about minimum wage is holding anyone back from offering a competitive wage?
You say, “the market would allow for more small-ended business type restaurants to open”. How? You say that a skilled server would potentially earn $15/hr. I don’t know any small business that can afford to pay those kind of wages to a large staff. Thus, the skilled workers will end up working for Darden, because a large corporation like that has the coin to spare. Mom’s diner could only afford to pay say.. $4 per hour, drawing in a less skilled staff. As a skilled server, I’m going to go where the money is. As a consumer, who wants to go to Mom’s diner with the poor service when you can go to Red Lobster where they work like a well oiled machine? Mom’s diner is out of business.
In reply to Valerie
Valerie–to answer you question on the 10% tips–food prices have also increased. In fact, food prices have increased at a 6-7% basis, whereas inflation is on average 4%. With that in mind, why should the tip percentage increase if the food prices have already increased?
Lets do some math:
in 1991, I would get a hamburger for $4. A 10% on that is 40 cents.
today, I get a hamburger for $14. Why would I have to leave a tip of 20% ($2.80) now? Shouldn’t I be able to tip 10% since the cost of the food has increased more than the cost of livign itself ($1.40)?
Corporations pay people based on what the market demands. Let us take, say a research scientist. Private biotech companies on average pay a scientist maybe $90,000. That already is well above minimum wage. In order to maintain the best scientists, Johnson and Johnson pay $95,000 and offer better retirement plans. See what the market does there? It allows the corporation to find the best talent. This scientist is not being paid “peanuts.” At the same time, he is being paid well above minimum wage.
You SHOULD go where the money is. This is, again, called CAPITALISM. A scientist that is paid more at Johnson and Johnson will REMAIN at that company. Small biotech companies HAVE to market themselves in a way to get the BEST talent. Maybe they might say “well we will pay you $70,000, however you can schedule your own hours, work as you please, and have stock options.” You see what they did there?
So let us take a mom and pap. They are going to tell the servers “we honestly cannot pay you more than $4/hour. However, we will accomodate your schedule only. We will make sure that you receive a larger lunch break than Darden. We will make sure that if anyone does leave a tip, whatever percentage that may be, it is all yours 100%. Darden, for example, does not do this. We will also make sure that you have transportation to get to our restaurant.”
See what the mom/pap did there? They cannot afford the $15/hour like a large corporation, but they marketed themselves in a way to attract teh BEST talented servers. That is how successfully marketed companies work.
This is why market capitalism works best. If a mom/pap restaurant can somehow out-do a larger corporate restaurant, they themselves would grow, expand and become a large corporate restaurant. It is all about market capitalism. There will always be little guys and big guys. the big guys tend to pay more than the little guys. Most small business owners must figure out a way to market their brand and draw the consumer away from the current corporate status quo to their brand. It has been done. Remember Nokia? They were a rubber boot company and look at them now. The excellent market of Finland allowed Nokia to grow their brand
Small business themselves might not be able to pay $15/hour INITIALLY, however as their revenue increases, their profit margin increases, so would their ability to find the BEST candidates to serve in the restaurant industry.
So with that in mind, how could a mom and pap start? On the low end of the spectrum–finding cheaper labor at say $3/hour.
Again, abolishing minimum wage helps people like you and me. We would be able to have our own servants, laborers etc work for us at the corporation we call home. I can easily then afford someone to clean my house for example.
Now, back to tipping. The fact is, society doesn’t need to tell me what to do if a set precedent for payment has been made. Tips are completely voluntary. If I want to tip 10%, then I will tip 10%.
In reply to Common Sense
People like you and me? Sorry..don’t ever compare the two of us. We are worlds apart. I clean my own house (er..apartment) and i’m fine with that. Sounds like you just want a personal servant for pennies an hour.
Think of it this way for minimum wage. There are 7.7% of people in the US unemployed right now right (14.4% of blacks are unemployed and 24% of black teens are unemployed fyi)?
Think of it this way. If those people CANNOT find a job that pays minimum wage, they are not allowed to work.
Pretty harsh reality, right?
Also, as a small business owner, how can I afford someone that is unskilled with no experience at $7.25/hour? That is too much of a constraint on me. Why would I want some teen kid with no experience when I can easily get some college grad and pay him $8/hour? I wouldn’t mind paying the teen kid say $4/hour, but $7.25 is WAY too much.
Hey Bhagwad, I know you love writing controversial blogs, so I’ve got a future idea for you. I know you bring up Walmart a lot, so if you ever run out of ideas or topics, you should make one about obese people using the motor scooters at Walmart instead of pushing a buggy or taking up handicapped parking spots, even though they aren’t disabled at all. Just plain LAZY. THAT would bring some controversy and I THINK is a lot of a bigger issue than tipping. LOL