It never fails to shock me how a tip is demanded in the US. People simply refuse to listen to reason when we (yes, there are others!) tell them that leaving a tip isn’t necessary. Well, I’m hoping for too much here, but if you’re a waiter, here are 5 reasons why I will try my best not to give any money to you and why the reasons for tipping are crappy.
1. You act as if you’re my best friend
Just leave me alone ok? I don’t want to bloody chit chat with you. I want food. FOOD! Get it? It’s a restaurant. I go there to eat. I go because I want either Italian food, Chinese Food or something else which I can’t get in a McDonald’s. So I come to a restaurant to fulfill my cravings for it. I will pay for what I value – food. Not you.
Christ, you offend me – kneeling down next to my table, pretending to like me and chatting as if you’re my best friend when it’s obvious that all you’re after is the tip! I’m not a bloody money bag you know. I will pay the bill which includes the cost of the food, the environment and the salaries of the people involved – nothing more.
The only way to get money out of me that I don’t have to legally pay is by prying it out of my cold dead hands…
Bottom line: I don’t want to know your name, or interact with you for any longer than I have to in order to place my order. As far as I’m concerned, you’re the equivalent of a conveyor belt that brings me my food and a computer into which I input my order. Of course, I won’t be rude. But don’t expect me to interact with you any more than I would with some stranger.
Image Credit: cafemama
2. You don’t get paid enough
And this is my problem how exactly? It’s astonishing that customers are expected to make up for your employer’s cheapness in not paying you a decent wage. Please include the full cost in everyone’s bill thank you very much. I’ll pay it because I have to and the charge is there for me to see.
What’s really funny here is that no one seems to criticize the employers! All criticism is reserved for non tipping customers instead of the owners of the restaurant for not paying a decent wage. Wtf! Could it possibly be because you guys know you can make much more by tips and under report your income to the IRS?
3. You’ll spit in my food if I don’t tip you?
And I’ll shoot your kid if you don’t give me a million dollars. Seriously, am I even hearing this right? You’re actually using the threat of blackmail to make me pay you? Well as long as you’re openly claiming to be a criminal it’s all right I guess.
Fortunately that’s why I prefer buffets. Listen apart from it being illegal, this shows your poor integrity. But if you spit in someone’s food because they didn’t give you money you didn’t earn, then you’re a loser and deserve to be a waiter for the rest of your life.
4. Bringing me my food isn’t worthy of being paid extra
Did you cook it? Did you invent it? No. You picked it up and brought it to me. While it might not be easy, there are plenty of jobs which are much worse – shop floor workers for example. And I’ve been a shop floor manager, so I know. Face it – compared to other jobs, being a waiter is unskilled. You get paid what the market will think your services are worth. You don’t deserve more for your work over and above what your employer should pay you.
5. Money doesn’t grow on trees
I expect you to be grateful and pray for me at night if I tip you 10%. Be happy I gave you anything at all. I worked for the money in my wallet and by giving you some I didn’t have to, I’m doing you a favor. Learn to remember that when people give you something they don’t need to, it’s a favor. You don’t complain that they didn’t give you more!
By the way, the same thing above applies to all professions that demand tips including those on cruise liners.
So now that you understand why I won’t give you money you don’t deserve, stop with the “oh how could you?” attitude. I can. And I will.
Update: Here’s a rebuttal of the many silly justifications for tipping that people have given in the comments section.
Order takeout. Cook at home. Grow a pair and show some self respect.
Whoa! A lot has gone on in the last few days, lol.
Looks like we’ve got some more pro “non-tipping” peeps on the blog, lol.
Brittney, it seems a lot of your points are misguided. Again, what about other service workers?
What about people here in California, where wait staff already make minimum wage?
Self respect? Consumerism has nothing to do with self respect.
RedLeg, enough with the irrelvant topics brother. We’ve discussed this already. You can start your own blog and speak how the rest of the world is so Anti-American and should be annihilated, whatever. This blog is about tipping.
BTW, tipping is NOT American. It was introduced to the US a little before World War I and was not fully accepted as an American institution until after the Great War. There was great protest as to the custom as it was seen as too “european” and “anti-American” and went against the “American way” because it condoned the mentality of having a servant at one’s hand and feet.
In reply to Common Sense
If you read all of the comments, you will see that Ryan and I already covered the topic of other service workers. I don’t feel like repeating it.
And we’ve been over the subject of California time and again, and for the what (tenth time maybe?), I’ll say that I am not talking about the waiters who are currently making minimum wage.
In reply to Brittney
And you’re also aware that employers are supposed to make up minimum wage to their employees. So why are you still talking about this?
In reply to bhagwad
Again, if you had read the comments thoroughly, the situation is not that simple. I’m not retyping it all, so I’m copying and pasting part of the conversation with Ryan (he brought up that point too):
“And I actually am aware that even if the Waiters don’t make at least minimum wage, that their employers are required to pay them the difference. But just because it’s legally required doesn’t make the issue that simple.
Should a Waiter not be tipped repeatedly and it starts to interfere with their wages and the company has to step in, the company the majority of the time will not think “Oh, these customers won’t tip”, the will think “What is so wrong with this employee that the customers won’t tip them?”
The Waiter can face disciplinary action or even (on the more dramatic side) lose their job due to an excess of non tippers. If a Waiter doesn’t receive adequate tips, they will be viewed by the establishment as a failure at properly doing their job to the satisfaction of the customers. So yes, legal requirement WILL assure that they make minimum wage, should the situation call for that, but it will drastically affect their working relationship with the company that employed them.”
His Response:
“Well that’s actually a very valid point. I can’t see a server lasting very long if they aren’t getting tipped. They’ll most certainly lose their job. I can’t think of any employer that would accept a server saying they didn’t make enough in tips. If you don’t tip, not only are you hurting somebody, you can even cost them their job too. I think the only real immidiate answer is to level out minmum wage. The fact the the government views tips this way is complete nonsense as it is. Tips should be veiwed the same as a bonus (they get taxed too).”
Ryan seems to be one of the few people on this blog who can agree that the system is wrong, but NOT tipping isn’t exactly the right solution to correct it.
In reply to Brittney
So how come you don’t reserve your anger and vitriol for the criminal employers?
Logically you should vent all your frustration on them way before you even look at people who don’t tip.
Yet in all your posts you’ve directed surprisingly little anger towards the true culprits – the employers. Why?
In reply to bhagwad
It isn’t the fact that you won’t tip that angers me. It is your right not to tip. It is not legally required of you. But it is your excuses for not tipping and pointing a finger at every one elses flaws (the system, the employers, the waiters) and never yourself that irks me.
I don’t agree with the system at all. I hate tipping. But I do it because at the time being, it’s the only compensation these waiters get. I refuse to add to the problem and hurt someone who is just trying to make an honest living by serving me.
I guess my conscience matters to me more than the money in pocket.
It isn’t the same for you obviously, and that is your right.
I just wish you would own it. If you don’t want to tip, than don’t tip. But why do you feel the need to come up with every justification you can think of as to why you don’t? Why can’t you just own the fact that you are overly tight with your money? You are cheap (and as someone has said, that term is not used necessarily as an insult, but as a statement that you are too tight with your money). Why can’t you just own what you are?
We all know the system is flawed. I honestly don’t believe that any of the tippers here are brainwashed and doing it just because it is expected. We know how the system works, we know it’s not our problem, but most of us, regardless of nationality or beliefs were raised with the saying “Treat others how you want to be treated.”
Should I ever be in the position where I couldn’t find a decent job, or was in college so that I COULD find a better job in the future and needed a job with flexible hours for the time being and I had to take a Waiting job, I would hope people would compensate me, knowing that I am not compensated through the establishment.
It’s just the courteous, sensible thing to do.
So my anger is not reserved at the employers because at least they own what they do. From the moment they hire someone, they make them perfectly aware that their wage will be below minimum wage and they are expected to earn the rest in tips. The employers don’t mislead the waitstaff. They see a chance to get a better profit by paying less to their waitstaff, and they take it. But they NEVER are fake about the pay. And if a consumer had THAT SAME ATTITUDE, and stated up front THEIR intentions (not to tip, how they feel its the establishments job to compensate the employees), than I would not reserve anger for the consumer.
But it’s when the consumer is aware of the way the system functions, is aware that they are expected to tip, but still abuses the system and the service that I show anger towards the consumer.
Taking advantage of people has always irked me. At least the employers are honest about it. Customers don’t show it until they already have used the services and leave nothing on their table for the waiters but dirty dishes to pick up.
If you want to be cheap, that’s your right. But at least OWN IT. Be who you are and show it with pride. Don’t try to excuse it. At the end of the day, I may not AGREE with your decision to not tip, but I will respect that you at least owned it instead of cowering behind it and blindsiding people.
In reply to Brittney
“Why can’t you just own the fact that you are overly tight with your money? “
I disagree with the word “overly”. I like to save money just like everyone else. So yes – I’m giving extremely good reasons why not tipping is smart and the right thing to do.
The word “cheap” means different things to different people (obviously). So it’s better if more objective words were used. Otherwise I don’t really understand what’s being said.
In reply to bhagwad
Well Bhagwad, we ALL like to save money. I personally love to save money. But your “good reasons” as to why you don’t tip and why it is “the right and smart thing to do” are only applicable for yourself. In something like tipping or eating at a establishment that uses the tipping system, there are more people involved in the system than just yourself. So NOT tipping would be financially best for YOU, but is greedy in the overall scheme of things. At least in this situation and this topic, anyway.
And as far as using the word cheap goes, I think the explanation that was given of it by the last commenter on this thread was pretty dead on. That word nails the definition behind it better than any other word I could think of. I don’t understand how you can’t understand what it meant by it when that person explained it as clear as day.
In reply to Brittney
“In something like tipping or eating at a establishment that uses the tipping system, there are more people involved in the system than just yourself.”
There are always more people involved regardless of what the transaction. You may believe that servers are somehow different from Walmart cashiers, but I don’t believe they are and their specific job requirements are irrelevant. The principle is the same if it’s a cab driver, a waiter, a pilot, a cashier, or a sex worker. An amount is agreed upon beforehand with the customer and that exact amount is paid regardless.
This is business. This is money. I dispute your arbitrary preference of calling one form of savings “cheap” and another one noble.
Both are meaningless. There’s nothing cheap or noble. Just business.
In reply to Brittney
But Brittney, you are arguing YOUR point of view. Just because you don’t fly often, doesn’t mean others don’t. Some people fly once a month. You argument is almost as subjective as tipping itself. Just because some don’t eat out often (like I), doesn’t mean others don’t.
Wait staff, regardless of what state, have to make minimum wage. It is just that here in California, wait staff make minimum wage PLUS the tips they receive. Other states, the employer HAS to compensate for lowered tips. At the same time, it doesn’t mean that the employer is not forbidden from paying higher wages.
Now whenever an institution is not working, workers will unioinze, protest for better conditions or simply stop working. Grocer employees did this a few years ago regarding their insurance. Farm workers did this (Caesar Chavez anyone). So if tipping is such a horrible institution, then why continue to be apart of it? I mean, can’t the employees just stick it to their employers? It is difficult, I agree, but why continue with such a horrific status quo? Why be apart of it?
Why should I be subject to an institution that is subjective itself? Someone else indicated a great example. Why should I pay a bigger tip for a more expensive glass of wine if the service involved is the same as me ordering a cheap glass of wine? Doesn’t make much sense.
In reply to Common Sense
btw, if the wait staff receives disciplinary action, then the employee can EASILY file suit against such an employer for unfair wage practices. Their are whole sections in law libraries regarding such actions, so why can’t wait staff become more educated about their jobs?
Again, if ALL wait staff suddenly stopped receiving tips, does that mean the employer has to fire EVERYONE? IF h/she has to fire everyone, this must mean that he better change how he runs a business.
I personally don’t think we need to level out the minimum wage level simply because minimum wage doesn’t work. As we have seen with everybody’s arguments, minimum wage creates an inflated sense of entitlement which prevents some workers that are unskilled to be out of the job market, simply because employers don’t want to pay unskilled employees more than $5/hour. That is simply my opinion.
In reply to Common Sense
I don’t think being called “cheap” is insulting at all. In fact, in a debate, charcater can in fact be called into question (since we’re using “I” “you” etc.). I’m certainly not saying being cheap is “bad” character but it’s relevant to the conversation.
In fact you bring up “logic” a lot as if that is all there is. Actually a great portion of our discussion (debate) is PHILOSOPHY as well. So I feel, as far as that is concerned, that there must be either 2 reasons you don’t tip based on our discussion. Either you’re very cheap, or you don’t tip based on “principle”. Like I said don’t confuse that with right, wrong, or insult though. Yes it’s an assumption but I don’t think all of your reasons are clear enough, or well enough placed.
When you call tipping “bribery” I feel it’s blown out of proportion, consoidering it’s just a service charge. When you say you want the service charge on the bill, I’m failing to see how that’s any different than the honor system. When you talk about adding percentages being “work”, I can’t understand how you really beleive that (considering you still need to do math no matter what you buy). That’s why I am drawing such conclusions because I don’t feel you’re giving reasonable enough points to counter… I don’t need to agree with you but your argument should be more reasonable. Saying adding a percentage is hard work is not reasonable.
I still really want to add though that there is NOTHING American about tipping. I agree with my friend CS on where tipping comes from. It’s a post civil war, introduced, European custom brough in by rich people that wanted to appear as “wordly”. The ONLY thing that is AMERICAN is what’s written in the constitution and the bill of rights. Tipping has absolulty nothing to do with ANYTHING on those documents. Stop brining the flag into this. America is about “life liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”. Comparing tipping the waiter to that is ridiculous.
As far as minmum wage goes I don’t think that system is effective at all either. I was talking about an “Immidiate” solution. Since we do have minmum wage, there is no reason why servers should be discriminated against and be the only ones not following the same standards. If you have minmum wage, make it the same for everybody.
And trust me they can not EASILY file a law suit! Trust me all the GM has to do is start cutting hours. They can smile and nod while they cut the check, and do what they please after the fact. You don’t need a legitimate reason to start ruducing hours, just one that sounds good enough.
And guys the employer is NOT the culprit. This is a system, recognized by the IRS (the government). That’s why the minmum is substantially lower because before you walk in the door, you’re expected to pay that unwritten service charge… Once again I think the whole system is bogus but you’re argument is that “since it’s not on paper, it’s wrong, and it’s a bribe”. The fact is that it’s THERE. Everybody expects you to pay for groceries, the light bill, and to pay that service charge… The only difference is that you have the option to opt out of this charge. The real problem is the system because yes… tipping is COMPLETE nonsense and I despise it… But it is the system and like my friend Brittney says…. You are hurting somebody when you dont tip.
Tell ya what. If you want it on the bill so bad, tell your server, or the manager just to add it all up for you. That will solve the problem.
In reply to Ryan
Ryan–I absolutely agree with you when it comes to the humanistic/philosophical aspects of honor systems and tipping, however, when it comes to the business arena, how can honor be DEMANDED? Obviously, if you are at a golf course, there is a price given on a sandwich and the honor system is required. Now you technically are also not legally obliged to pay that either, however, you are more than likely to get kicked out of the country club. Some states, however, do have some laws about country club honor systems.
Tipping, however is a different beast. How so? Well “kindness” is demanded upon the consumer. Obviously someone is getting hurt. When kindness is demanded upon the consumer, in the business world, you are essentially biting the hand that feeds. This is why i’m against tipping. Why is 10% not considered kind but 15% is considered kind? It is very arbitrary. Kindness is subject to whatever the giver gives.
Let me give an analogous sample. There is a beggar. He is askign for ANYTHING. You give him 50 cents. He throws the money at you and says “i only take dollars.” How does this make sense? He is demanding that you give him a dollar.
The tipping system does not affect me in terms of my wages and I am happy with the current system in that i’m not legally obliged to tip (unless there is an auto-grat). If I look cheap, then I look cheap. If Red leg thinks that me not using a European tradition brought in during post civil War America makes me UnAmerican (see how much that doesn’t make sense) then so be it. But I will tip as I please, whether it be 0%, 10%, pi%, 9.294710%, etc.
I’m a libertarian in the truest sense. Ron Paul even made a great point about wages–the best thing to do is find another job. This will truly hurt the employer when h/her best employees flee elsewhere.
In reply to Common Sense
I think I’ve clearly stated that I agree with all of those views and I support them myself. I’m a Libertarian and a Ron Paul supporter as well. I’m just trying to stick with the topic at hand and no drift away too far.
The only disagreement I see (if there is any) is that “is tipping the right thing to do”? I’ve said many times that using percentages is complete crap and I wont use them. Brining an expensive bottle of wine isn’t harder than brining a cheap one. In fact tipping in general (the system) is a complete load and I don’t like it either.
But when you talk about “Libertarian Ideals” one of them is that we decide who we take care of (not the government). It’s the grounds of “common sense” without extremism. I don’t tip percentages, and I don’t tip because I agree with the system. I tip a “fair service charge” because I don’t want to hurt anybody, and part of being a libertarian is making the right choices without people telling us what to do.
Everything you keep saying about abolishing minimum wage and just about everything else I agree with. I keep mentioning that… But it’s not abolished and servers are completley singled out. RON PAUL wanted to level out server minmum wages. If you go to his page he mentions that in his platform. He said it’s not what he wants in the long term but it’s a reasonable fix in the short term… That is the point. You’re in California where the system at least works for everybody. You don’t even need to tip a penny as far as I’m concerned. But in places where the wage is below minmum wage, a service charge is expected by the servers, the restaurant and everybody else (the same as your cell phone bill).
It’s not in the menu, it’s not an auto-grat, it’s just the right thing to do because that’s the way the (faulty) system is set up.
The honor system is CERTAINLY demanded in many cases by the way. Tipping isn’t one of them though. Actually there are many honor systems that if broken are against the law.
Bottom line is that you don’t need to keep re-explaining the points. Especialy because I’ve said all of those and already agreed. My only point is that somebody gets hurt when they are not tipped and 49 states partake in this.
Also when somebody says “I don’t mind paying the service charge as long as it’s on the bill” is a phony argument. If the menu says there is a x% gratuity to your meal, that’s supposed to be better than having the option to opt out?
In reply to Ryan
Good points Ryan. DOn’t mean to sound like a broken record, so I apologize. I also apologize if I have drifted a bit astray from the topic, however some of those discussions do come back “full circle” to the argument of wages/tips etc.
I do thoroughly, however, disagree with your view on the auto-grat system. The reason is that auto-grat simply removes any ambiguity and also makes it legal upon you to pay, since it is on the receipt. It also prevents the wait staff from being ripped off while the consumer can decide in teh future where h/she would like to eat out. If we have an unambigious system that way, the market can take care of itself by allowing certain restaurants to thrive and others falter.
You are correct that “somebody” is going to be ripped off. Unfortunately, and again I don’t mean to sound harsh, that is not my concern. I have to concern myself first. I do tip, however it is usually $2-3 or higher. It is “never” based on percentages but rather how truly good teh service was. Many times I have also not tipped because I didn’t find anything special to what the server was doing.
Those are my opinions. They should remain that way. The whole problem with a “fixed percentage” tip system is no one truly has the freedom to decide for him/herself how to eat out, where to eat out, etc. Auto-grat at least allows the consumer to decide “ok, this place has an auto-grat of 18%, while this other place has an auto-grat of 15%. Lets go to the 15% place instead of the 18% place.” That’s where market economics helps.
Ron paul did mention levelling server wages, however at the same time, he himself is also against laying out a minimum wage (federal) in teh first place. States are a different topic, but fed?
BTW, there are other states besides Cali that pay their wait staff at or near the fed minimum wage (Nevada comes to mind).
It is no more than a cultural issue. Americans themselves don’t like to hear this, but they can be backwards and arrogant when it comes to certain “traditions” that go against what they are used to–tipping being one of them.
In reply to Common Sense
When I responded to the wages of other service jobs, I was not arguing my point of view. I was simply stating that I don’t feel comfortable responding to their wages, because I’m honestly not that knowledgeable to them. I won’t pretend to know something that I do not know.
I never said that other people don’t fly, or take cabs, or use those other services. Of course they do. But I am not one of them and am not in the position to debate their wages or job titles. Had I more knowledge of these jobs, I would.
And again, if you have read my prior comments, you’d know I don’t believe in tipping percentages. I believe that you should tip what you think the service provided to you deserves.
I think it’s ridiculous to be expected to tip more for an expensive meal or wine bottle than one that was cheaper but required the same effort to serve.
I base tipped on the work and attention my waiter provides me with. If I make their job easy and they don’t tend to me much, I tip much less than I would with a big party where we had our Waiter running for refills and other things and leaving a big mess to clean up.
As far as Waiters standing up to their employers goes, it is not that easy to just stand up and demand more.
Tip of the hat to my fellow bar staff. I like many others work more than one job, business systems analysis during the day, tending bar many evenings.
Tending to all kinds of people from all walks of life and serving them whatever whim crossed their mind that evening takes a ton of work. And that is just for standard drinks, many like myself have their own lists of invented drinks which draw in and entertain the masses.
A bartender has much work to do in a night, they entertain, execute perfect concoctions from all manner of liqueurs, juices, spices, fruits and pops then add presentation. Most people don’t have the memory, skill, communication, patience, accuracy, and swiftness of service to keep up.
Try analyzing your own job “Bro”, if you think tending bar is unskilled work then I bet you’ll find the same of your own. Bartending is more complex on a moment to moment basis than any work I’ve done up to and including my current career.
In reply to Tarny Narks
all jobs are difficult, no matter what the wage is. That is why it is called “work.” I’ve seen SOOOO many wait staff make this argument, but that doesn’t legitimize anything.
Have you served our country? How does that compare? How is working at Target anymore difficult? How is working as a paramedic/EMT (emts tend to make a little above minimum wage and are forbidden to accept tips due to obvious reasons) any more difficult? What about sanitation?
Your job is difficult, i give you that. But so is mine. So is Brittney’s. So is Bhagwad’s. So is Ryan’s. So is Valerie’s. So is RedLeg’s. It is called “work” for a reason. Work is work, play is play.
Not all people are guranteed high wages. Some (nurses/doctors/lawyers) receive great wages. Others not necessarily. That is how normal economics work. Social economics require all to receive “fair”wages, but this causes work output to be dramatically diminished.
there is no-one now alive that remembers when Americans did not tip. History on the fact when it was introduced is exactly that– it now established American custom to tip. Period. Full Stop. It doesn’t make you wrong not to tip. It does make other people call you cheap. Customs can change and evolve. And if we are backwards and arrogant, that is the way the world looks like to you, one of the anointed. I for one am grateful that I five in a society that allows me to be free enough to be served food and drink by other people on a real plate without being in fear for my life. If that is American, so be it. I will not apologize in any respect for being American, as imperfect as our society is.
In reply to redleg
It’s amusing that you feel you have to be in America to be free enough to have someone serve you food on a “real” plate without having to fear for your life.
I assure you there are lots of places that don’t expect a tip where you can fulfill that requirement :D
America has a lot going for it (Freedom of Expression to be specific). But having food served to you is not very high on the list of selling points.
In reply to bhagwad
and a small thing to be grateful for. You should be grateful for the small things. Waste your sweat and thought for things that really matter. You are the one with your panties in a wad about it. It is and was always your choice and the government should have nothing to say about it. But do not say I don’t have the right to judge you being a cheapskate for so doing. I have been all over the world and tipped everywhere I’ve gone. Some places do. Some places do not. But I’ve live on the edges of civilization for almost 3 years and I am grateful for real food served to me with a smile. I tip generously because of that. As I said, the small things. You don’t have to be in America to be grateful for that, but this is home for me. I’ve seen too much wrong with the rest of the world to wish for your solutions here.
In reply to redleg
“I’ve seen too much wrong with the rest of the world to wish for your solutions here.”
Lol. What solutions? You make it sound as if without tipping you can’t get a decent dining experience anywhere in the world!
Stop attacking strawmen.
In reply to redleg
America is a great place, but we’re not talking about America. This post is about Tipping. The liberal entitlement that has crept into restaurant tipping today is pretty ridiculous.
Even when tipping was introduced and became mainstream after World War I (introduced after the Civil War and not fully accepted until after World War I), tipping was left to the consumer. The percentage deal did not come in until the 1980s. Back in the 70s, most people simply left their spare change.
You call me cheap? I call you incredibly fiscally irresponsible and sheepishly following a status quo that hurts more than it helps employees (and employers for that matter). I may be cheap, but I refuse to be a lemming :)
In reply to Common Sense
but still you come off as cheap. No solidarity for the workers, Comrade? My father, a WWII Pacific veteran, left at least 20 percent. Through the 60-70s– so thank you for the another misleading opinion. That may have been your experience but it isn’t mine. If it is my money, fairly earned by me, how is it fiscally irresponsible to tip the waitstaff? Or does the master collective have plans for my money that you do not wish to disclose. My money– I choose where it goes. If I want to tip I will do so. If you can afford to go out to eat, you can afford to tip. Those grateful for the privilege will tip well. If I want to give to the church for the support of a charity I will do so– what I will not do is let the gov’t have any more say in such things than it already does. Minimum wage is bad enough to the free market, and the gov’t is already too involved in picking winners and losers with a dreadful track record.
In reply to redleg
So your dad was a vet, now what? Am i supposed to agree with EVERYTHING you say? I mean, cool, thanks, pat on the back. Now what? What does this have to do with tipping?
If I can afford to eat, then you cannot tell me otherwise. You have no right. You do not know me, nor do I know you. You can tip as much as you want, and that is your right. I also possess the right not to tip.
Stop attacking strawmen.
In reply to Common Sense
No, just saying that his experiences have as much to do with tipping as your observations of past tipping practices. I have never told you to tip, I have merely said that if you don’t you will be thought of as cheap.
In reply to redleg
I’d like someone to explain (preferably you since you keep talking about it), what “cheap” is supposed to mean. Is it like having brown eyes? And if so, why are you referring to it?
In reply to bhagwad
It seems obvious that you didn’t read my earlier comment regarding the general use of the word cheap. Or else you preferably want redleg to repeat what I had mentioned already. Assuming redleg missed my comment as well, I’ll just explain it once again.
The only reason that the word “cheap” is being used here is probably to imply that you are simply too tight with your money. In certain cicumstances, it can also be used for a person who does not have the decency a civilized human is expected to have. Somewhat same as when you label a person to be a jerk. I don’t think saying “You are a jerk” is same as saying “You have black hair”.
Also, like you wrote about Bal Thackeray being a “thug” in one of your articles, it is obvious that being a thug wasn’t the same as saying “He had black hair”. The words “thug” and “cheap” do not refer to any physical traits of a person. Just like a person may be decent or indecent, polite or impolite, well behaved or mannerless, similarly a person may be generous or “cheap”. It has got absolutely nothing to do with him having black hair or brown eyes. :)
Having used most of the above words quite often in your own articles, I guess you clearly understand what being “cheap” means. But if you really do not understand it still, then I think you need to take this to someone sensible to explain it to you. Mere comments from people here will not do the trick for you.
In reply to Purple Cloud
What makes you think you speak for the person I was talking to? Since he was the one using the word, I want his response. Not what you think he meant.
Calling Bal Thackray a “thug” is a negative connotation. However, there’s no reason for my to believe that being “cheap” is bad.
In any case like I said, this is not about your understanding of the word.
In reply to bhagwad
I really wish you read my entire comment before pulling the trigger. :)
In the very first paragraph I clearly mentioned about you preferably wanting redleg’s response to your question.
But you started off by saying :- “I’d like someone to explain…..” after which you inserted the word ‘preferably’ for redleg. Now, if you consider ‘preferably’ to be the same as ‘only’, then I must accept I commented out of turn. But as far as my understanding of the English language goes, the two words don’t mean the same. :)
Secondly, please show where I mentioned that being cheap is ‘bad’. I limited my comment to explain the meaning of the general use of the word ‘cheap’. Something which you had asked to be explained. You have yourself projected being cheap as being bad.
Lastly, since you keep asking for the meaning of the word ‘cheap’ which you fail to understand, I would just like to draw your attention to your own original article (at which the current discussion is directed) where under point number 2 you clearly mention :-
2. You don’t get paid enough
And this is my problem how exactly? It’s astonishing that customers are expected to make up for your employer’s cheapness in not paying you a decent wage.
Now unless people’s eyes are deceiving them, there you have used the word ‘cheapness’ for the waiter’s employer.
If you were so ignorant about the meaning of the word ‘cheap’, how come you have yourself used it in your original article, and that too using it in the same context as the word is being used in the discussion here ? I wonder….. :)
In reply to Purple Cloud
“Now, if you consider ‘preferably’ to be the same as ‘only’, then I must accept I commented out of turn. But as far as my understanding of the English language goes, the two words don’t mean the same. :)”
I was being polite and didn’t want to offend you. But that is exactly what I meant.
In reply to redleg
“My money– I choose where it goes. “
“If you can afford to go out to eat, you can afford to tip.”
It’s not often that one contradicts themselves immediately one sentence after. Pretty cool huh?
In reply to bhagwad
Both sentences stand on their own. They do not contradict. I did not tell you have to tip– I merely note that if you can afford to eat out, you can afford to tip. Obviously you can afford to be thought in accordance with a stereotype but hey…
In reply to redleg
btw, what’s up with the “comrade” stuff? I’m a Ron Paul supporter (rand paul 2016!) and i don’t think i’ve ever voted democrat. Perhaps I should be calling YOU comrade simply because you want to make sure everyoen, including Wait staff, have equal wages. I don’t want equal wages, nor do I care. In capitalism, all people will have either high or low wages. If I want to voluntarily give someone money, then I should do it on MY terms. Not based on percentages, but based on what I am feeling. $5, $10, $1, $0.
Minimum wage is HORRIBLE. We don’t need it. The market is bad enough. Tipping makes it worse, especially since it is based on percentages.
Not legally required, therefore going to do in on MY terms.
If some vet calls me cheap, then its fine. Being cheap is not an insult. Many great republicans were called cheap as well and they were able to stabilize entire economies based on their “cheapness” so don’t give me that.
TIpping is a voluntary system and therefore, should not be demanded. It is like if you see a homeless person on the street. You give him $1. He throws the dollar at your face and says “i require $4, don’t you know the system?” Voluntarily giving money should be that–voluntary.
In reply to Common Sense
Ron Paul supporter. That explains a lot. He actually sounds OK, but then you realize that 49% sounds sane and the other 51% is batshit crazy. Not convinced yet his son is any better, but he is growing on me. Scratch Ron Paul though and you expose a racist and anti-semite pretty quickly. Not the kinda guy I would want to quote if I was generating popular support. And you were the one touting how fair minimum wage was in Kalifornia and that tipping was unfair. If you don’t like the practice just tell your server that you don’t tip– fair is fair now. Let them decide what minimum service is. You are taking advantage of the system and inflicting pain on the lowest part of that system. Not very egalitarian of you. Which is why I gave you the communist moniker– because most commies don’t even believe in their own system– they just salute the flag and mouth the propaganda while looting the system. Which is pretty much what you are doing.
In reply to redleg
“Scratch Ron Paul though and you expose a racist and anti-semite pretty quickly”.
I would LOVE to hear where this theory comes from.
In reply to Ryan
True that. Ron Paul I believe is a trillion times better than most of the morons we’ve had in office in the past “X” amount of years.
I’m a Ron Paul supporter all the way! WOO!
In reply to Brittney
RedLeg–keeping his posts on topic one thread at a time, lol.
I’d like to hear this theory as well.
I don’t need to tell the waiter/tress anything. There is freedom of speech adn freedom from speech, right redleg?
RedLeg, say what you like, but the topic at hand is tipping. I don’t care if you or your father went to Germany and tore down the Berlin Wall, shot and killed Hitler/bin Laden or destroyed the Japs in WW II. I’m still not gonna tip.
I never said California’s min wage is fair. In fact, it should be abolished. I just do prefer how California does not discriminate a Wal mart cashier from a waiter.
I don’t agree with the system, and I don’t need to voluntarily tip. You can clamor all you want comrade, but that is just how I feel. You cannot argue with that. It is MY Freedom of Speech, hey comrade?
In reply to Common Sense
a casual screening of Ron Paul’s public record, writings and political history exposes him as the fraud and huckster that he is. From a career politician who has has produced absolutely NO change in this country, I stand by my comments. All you can do is shout me down. Ron Paul has been in office all these years. What has he done except enrich himself? I never said you had to to tip. I simply said I and many others will think of you as cheap. What we have is a difference of opinion that you wish was codified into law. My definition of a libertarian is someone who wants to take over the world and leave you the hell alone. But, sadly, it seems you are a small l libertarian– you want your freedom while letting the government tell everyone else what to do. Scratch a libertarian– find a statist.
In reply to redleg
i don’t think the government should be telling anyone what to do. Including to tip. The government should leave everyone the heck alone. Even if a restaurant pays $0/hour to their wait staff, and the staff ENTIRELY depends on tips for their income, it is still under my discretion to tip. You cannot tell me what to do, even if you somehow manage to assassinate Castro himself, you cannot tell me what to do, nor can the government nor anyone else. If I want to tip $5, it is my discretion. If I want to tip $0, under my discretion.
We do have many legal precedents, and from a common sense point of view, I will follow those legal precedents. If the speed limit on a street is 45 mph, you are legally required to travel 45 mph. That means I will travel 45 mph as long as I can safely. If I go above 45 mph, if have transgressed the laws of the road, and therefore, am liable to beign punished.
The same goes with these types of payments at restaurants. I am legally required to pay what is on the bill. No matter what political leaning you are, you have to pay what is on the bill. If not, you are liable for theft. This includes any auto-grat (which I have no problem with). However, the tip, unless clearly stated on teh bill that you are REQUIRED to give a certain percentage, is under my discretion.
I really don’t want to make this political at all (such as the status quo trying to prevent any of Ron Paul’s changes to come into fruition such as elminating the Fed and bringing the gold standard back), but you have a right to YOUR opinion, right RedLeg? You cannot, by law, force anyone to your political opinions. What does that mean? You cannot threaten somebody’s life if they are a democrat.
Same draws to the tipping. These laws are in place. Theft is a clear and outright law. Not tipping, just makes you look “cheap.” THere is no law. I don’t care what the wait staff make. I just want my food. They signed up for the job, and they know very well what they are getting into in a tip based job.
The government should give me the freedom to chose EXACTLY what I do with my money. In this case, they are giving me the right not to tip and I will maintain that right. Even in a libertarian society, one is required, by law, to pay what the recipient and the establishment agree to, which is clearly listed on the receipt. If the recipient wants to pay extra, it is up to him.
In reply to redleg
Never told you you had to tip. You are the one railing about unequal pay. Didn’t offer to end your communist/socialist/hippie lifestyle in any way shape or form. Don’t really care how cheap you are or how deeply you are in love with Ron Paul in contravention to established facts of the man’s life.
How about this (and I don’t know if it’s been covered, but I’m sure it’s been touched on to some degree)
If you don’t believe in tipping? Don’t go to restaurants.
Don’t believe you should be subsidizing the wage of a server and that the restaurant should just pay their employees more? Don’t go to restaurants.
Think servers get paid enough and if they don’t like it, they can just go ahead and find another job? Don’t go to restaurants. (actually, you won’t be able to go to restaurants because there would literally be no one there to serve you if everyone took your advice).
If you don’t believe in supporting an industry that allows a certain type of employee to be paid significantly less than the standard minimum wage, then don’t continue to support the industry, and stop going to restaurants. Don’t continue to go to restaurants and simply not tip. That’s not protesting on moral grounds, that’s called being a hypocrite. You don’t get to enjoy the benefits of being served, and then lash out at the server because you don’t believe in the rules that the industry imposes on them.
Stay home. Cook a meal for yourself. Don’t have 3 hours to reduce a sauce, slow cook a rack of ribs, grind and make sausage, or make a hollandaise from scratch? Tough.
Don’t want to have to get up every time you need a glass of water, or hit the liquor store beforehand because you want a glass of wine, or buy all the ingredients and learn how to make a cocktail because you want a manhattan? Sucks to be you.
Don’t want to have to eat your meal in a tiny, poorly lit apartment littered with your personal belongings, while the guy next door plays drums, or the lady above you has her TV on too loud? Whoops.
Servers are a part of the industry, and if you don’t like the way the industry works, then stop supporting it. If enough people do this, then either restaurants will be forced to pay their servers a more liveable wage, or every restaurant will be forced to shut down.
Either way, then you won’t have to complain anymore.
In reply to Josh
“If you don’t believe in supporting an industry that allows a certain type of employee to be paid significantly less than the standard minimum wage, then don’t continue to support the industry, and stop going to restaurants. “
It’s upto the waiters to fight for their rights. How does not going to restaurants benefit me?
“You don’t get to enjoy the benefits of being served, and then lash out at the server because you don’t believe in the rules that the industry imposes on them.”
I honestly couldn’t care less about how much a waiter is being paid. It’s up to them to negotiate better wages with their employers. How do I come in?
In reply to bhagwad
Because you are cheap and don’t like to tip. You are the guy who drives on a road and doesn’t register his car so the county has no money to pay for road repair. You are a parasite on the system– a loophole that benefits you simply because it is not illegal for you to do so. So you don’t tip and then contrive elaborate rationalizations to explain your being cheap. And hence a hypocrite, which is arguably worse– as you have no values system that underlies your beliefs.
In reply to redleg
I haven’t mentioned this before, but what is this obsession with using the word “cheap”? You hurl it as if it’s supposed to mean something as part of an argument. But if so, I’m not getting it. What point are you trying to make? Maybe it implies something else that you’re not stating?
Is it an argument at all? Because to me it sounds just as if you’re saying “You have brown eyes!”. May or may not be true…but…so what?
In reply to bhagwad
Your genetics gave you brown eyes. Being ignorant makes you cheap.
“How does not going to restaurants benefit me?”
… and apparently selfish too.
If you don’t like tipping, don’t go to a restaurant that goes by the tip system. Hit the cafeteria line. Drive through. Say hi to the cashier.
There are literally millions of ways you can put food into your face other than going to restaurants.
Although, considering the amount of attention your opinion on tipping is getting, I’d be surprised if you were ever welcomed in another restaurant again.
Enjoy the publicity. Nice picture too.
If you don’t like the rules, don’t play the game.
In reply to Josh
I don’t get it – why should I not go to restaurants when I have no problems with them?
Waiters should stop working at them since they’re the ones who have an issue with the whole tipping thing since they want a minimum wage.
Don’t see how any action is required on my part.
If being ignorant makes me cheap and you think I’m cheap, what am I ignorant of?
In reply to bhagwad
“what is this obsession with using the word “cheap”? You hurl it as if it’s supposed to mean something as part of an argument. But if so, I’m not getting it.”
Though some people might just be tempted to tell you to take this to someone sensible to explain it to you instead of asking to be lead by the hand, but I’ll just try anyways. :)
The only thing that the word “cheap” being used here is probably to imply that you are simply too tight with your money. In certain cicumstances, it can also be used for a person who does not have the decency a civilized human is expected to have. Somewhat same as when you label a person to be a jerk. I don’t think saying “You are a jerk” is same as saying “You have black hair”.
But before you question me about the reason for the word “cheap” being used for your opinion about tipping, I must clarify that I’m not using that word for you neither going into the tipping discussion. I just tried to explain the general use of the word “cheap” whether or not it is a part of the ongoing argument. :)
And btw, I don’t think trying to pretend ignorance about being ridiculed actually helps anyone’s cause. :D
In reply to bhagwad
agreed. If the system is affecting WAIT STAFF, then it is their role to fight the status quo. Labor unions get together and fight the status quo, why can’t the wait staff (boy, can’t wait for redleg’s irrelevant argument and him mentioning the military, lol).
Call me cheap? I’d say i’m fiscally responsible. Sure i’m cheap, but i’m not in debt like the rest of the US. Probably the libertarian in me.
Anyways, the system does not require that I tip. When I do tip, it is whatever I feel like. Brittney herself stated NOT to tip based on percentages and I Don’t. I’ll tip maybe $4 if it is good service, and $1-2 if it is bad and a big ZERO if it is horrible (along with a complaint to the management).
There are no “tipping rules.” In fact, one woman at Applebee’s was terminated because she posted a pretty silly comment from some Church head about tipping and giving 10% to God.
What it all boils down to is mutual respect and understanding. Here’s a great and humorous take on the whole thing by the oatmeal:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tipping_tooting
In reply to paz
Respect inthe 70s simply meant your spare change. In the 80s, “respect ” (ie tips) was 10%. The 90s saw 15%. The 2000s saw 20%. Why is respect being demanded? Why are we “required” to be understanding? I mean, let us face it, wait staff are employees like any other. They aren’t our moms, dads, brotehrs, sisters or friends. They are employees of an establishment like anyone else.
Mutual respect in itself is voluntary and does not require an exact percentage. Some people feel 10% is more than generous. That was how it was in the 80s. Why has that changed? Let people do what they feel. Don’t add a percentage. Some people tip $5 no matter what the bill was. So if the bill was $10, they tip $5. If the bill was $100, they tip $5.
Why is it that one cannot tip the EMT that rescued his/her life (EMT’s make minimum wage often times and are forbidden to accept tips)?
BTW, that was humorous haha.
Let me tell you- awesome article. Couldn’t agree more. And good job keeping this post up, in-spite of the negative comments. There shall always be haters. \m/
Please to christ stay out of America. In all honesty we don’t want you here, your garbage and your country is garbage. You dot head dick.
In reply to Butane Elvis
YAY!!! More Klan members!!!!
Hey, i thought you believe in freedom of speech?
Get out of my country. You don’t believe in freedom of speech, something we fight for dearly. You fascist!!
If I don’t want to tip, i’m not legally required to tip, i’m not going to tip if I’m not in the mood. It is my money and since tipping is voluntary, i do not feel compelled by fascists such as Butane Elvis to do so.
I can see how servants get very touchy with this subject, and in a way they have the right side of it. They get paid what they get paid and they need tips to make a decent wage. Which is totally cool! I mean, the system is what it is. We all agree the system is unfair, but nobody seems to be willing to do anything about it except for the people who chose not to tip.
I will tip if the service is good and I won’t if it isn’t. If the service is bad I won’t come back anyway and if it’s good I will, so all works up nicely and I don’t have to/want to have to think about anything else. But at no point will I tip as an obligation. If I don’t have the cash on me to tip then I’ll tip next time, maybe. And that is just how it is. Give me a crap service and I won’t come back. Easy.
I really don’t know how much my server gets paid and I don’t really care as much as the person serving me doesn’t care how much I get paid or what I do for a living. If they have a problem with their wages, they can put it up with their employer the same way I do with mine.
Your employer doesn’t have an obligation to pay you minimum or below minimum wages. It’s his choice to pay above minimum wages if he chooses to. In the same way, you have no obligation to accept a job offer where they pay you less than minimum wage. Just look for another job if the conditions don’t suit you. It works like that for everyone else. How come you are so ‘special’?
Also, if servers all decided to not do the jobs for wages below minimum. Restaurant service wouldn’t cease to exist, as some of you seem to believe. Employers would simply have to charge more for food and tipping would in a way be included in the bill as it works everywhere else in the world* (*almost everywhere) because they need servers.
When you go to a supermarket, someone had to stock the shelves, clean the aisles, have trolleys available, etc… you do actually get a service and facilities to make your shopping more comfortable and they do so hoping that you will come back. Of course you don’t tip. You don’t know what the cashiers’ wage is and yo certainly don’t know if they make enough for a living. If a restaurant wants customers to return, they hell will make sure the service is top notch and they will pay good wages to their staff to make sure they get the best of the best.
This isn’t about being a selfish bastard. It’s about people doing everything they can for themselves before asking others to do it for them. It’s so easy to say… oh it’s my employers fault…oh it’s the government…oh it’s because this and that. I’m not your mommy and I’m not going to fight for your rights when you can’t even be bothered to do it for yourselves. You want your decent wage, then fight for it and stop begging! Customary bullshit and all, any excuse is good to pass the bucket to someone else.
If you are a bartender and all do is serve drinks, really… 1$ tip per drink? Are you going to tell me that you only serve 10 drinks per hour? Wtf! Of course you don’t!!! You make way more than minimum wage. You get taxed for and up to your minimum wage and the rest is tax free, or do you think we are stupid? Of course you don’t want the system to change. You would be worse off! So on the end, this isn’t about…’poor me, my wage is so low I can’t make a living of it’ This is more like ‘yeah baby! money in keep rolling!’ So who has the wrong moral end of the stick?
I’m not saying that it’s the same for everyone in the industry. But some make shit loads of money on tips more than I make with my decent wage.
If all you make is enough to cover your min wage tips and all, you should change jobs. Either way, it’s all down to you, not others.
In addition, and taken directly from the US Department of Labour:
Quote ‘If an employee’s tips combined with the employer’s direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.’
That completely throws away the servers’ claim that costumers have to tip because they get less than minimum wage. Their employer has an obligation to pay up to their min wage.
I have absolutely no sympathy for servers anymore. They lie and cheat their way into making people feel bad and tip more so that they can make more than min wage. The only reason why you lot still get so many tips is because of the misconception going around that otherwise you wouldn’t make a minimum wage, which you also make every effort of keeping alive to your own grredy interests. You are just greedy, bunch of fakes and I won’t give 1 cent more of my pocket to you unless I feel you totally come out of your way to serve me.
Furthermore, from this day, I hereby declare people, of any country, backround, ethnic group or else, to be absolutely STUPID if they give tips to anyone who doesn’t give their body and soul to the cause of serving customers to the upmost of standards ever witnessed by mankind in this world, or universe. Amen
In reply to Sometimes Tipper
WOW Sometimes tipper. COuldn’t have said it better myself :)