For me, life without consciousness is a meaningless classification. No point calling it alive – since it is only conscious life forms towards which we experience things like empathy.

So I don’t mind cutting a rock in half since it’s neither alive nor has consciousness. I don’t mind cutting a plant in half since though it is technically life, it has no consciousness and feels no pain. But I wouldn’t like to cut an animal in half since it has consciousness.

1. have the capability to Reproduce
2. Adapt to the environment (it can even mutate)
3. Defend itself
4. Grow (transition between different stages of LIFE)
5. life is NOT immortal. (Robots can extend their lives indefinitely by changing their power sources, replacing worn parts. Living organisms cannot do that. there is only a FINITE number of times the cells can divide)

computer viruses can
1. Reproduce
2. Adapt to the environment (it can even mutate)
3. Defend itself

but it is not life because it is nothing but bits of code. it is not comprised of any organic building blocks eg. RNA/DNA.

computer viruses cannot exist in the physical realm. they only survive in cyberspace

plants, viruses are both life because they
1. have the capability to Reproduce
2. Adapt to the environment (it can even mutate)
3. Defend itself
4. Grow (transition between different stages of life)
5. They can die

life doesnt need consciousness for it to be classified as life. consciousness is just a genetic trait carried by evolution.

as i see it, consciousness just is. it is the software. creation ( non living and living ) is the hardware. it all depends on the type of hardware availabe for consciousness to be known at all the different levels.

its like we are in a maze on the surface of earth. entangled in the maze, we run hither thither, sometimes looking for a way out. sometimes we look up – to an unseen power that we intuitivly know exists, for help, till that power appears in the form of a human being who is settled in that power, and says ' just go down, below. concentrate deep into your core and settle there. there is no maze there and so are always free . that is pure consciousness . the consciousness that is not of ' this and that '

Imagine that we are at a vantage point looking down upon earth and human activity ( say atop a sky scraper ). what would be obeserved ? human beings scurrying around like ants. we would not know their motives, thought processes, perceptions, emotions, concepts, memories, capabilities to think abstractly or whether they are capable of being grounded in a deeper sense of consciousness apart from the consciousness related to those already mentioned. similarly, are we in any position to conclude that plants and other life forms are devoid of similar faculties ? unless we became one of them, we would never know.

secondly, sometimes we get into life situations where we experience pain, physical and mental, but cannot move out of that pain ( like intractable pain from cancer or compressed nerves etc not to mention emotional pain ). so the point that pain is experienced only by life forms who can move away from it, does not hold very well.

thirdly, every cell that life forms are made up of has the capability to reproduce. our bodies are just a collection of millions of ‘ live ‘ cells ( including billions of bacteria that live in and on ‘ us ‘ ) thats all that the body is. life seems to mean that cells have the potential to synthesize and store energy so that they can perform certain functions that non ‘ living ‘ things are incapable of.

bhagwad :
The problem with talking about things like DNA and carbon is that they’re arbitrary and are earth specific. I’d like to have a definition of life that isn’t restricted to earth. There’s no reason for carbon based life forms to be the only type of life.

Arbitrary? Earth-specific?

I can always re-evaluate my definition when the cylons arrive.

Until then, I prefer to see life in trees and comatose humans over the possible existence of a non-carbon based alien life-form.

I’m beginning to suspect you’re just being polemical. ;-)

BTW. I also vote for the plants being alive but not mechanical in the poll.

You have compelled me to put away my mask for a few moments and be semi-serious. I promise, this won’t happen frequently…

Bhagwad writes:
“Well, one of the necessary conditions for life (according to our textbooks) is reproduction.”

I think by “life” you refer to a collective of living things, (i.e. the human race, dinosaurs, plankton) and not an individual.

If cats cannot reproduce, then the conditions for feline life to exist will cease. It doesn’t matter what an individual cat can or cannot do.

As far as pain –> read Peter Singer. That’s how you can justify eating plants vs. animals. Plants (apparently) feel no pain.

Life? Consciousness poses problems. And, I think, Singer would also point this out. There are humans who lack consciousness but are certainly alive. The severely handicapped. The comatose. Those who are in a vegetative state. I have no more reason to believe that they are conscious than a sponge or a carrot is, yet, I believe all are alive.

No, I would go for a more scientific explanation, carbon and water-based definition of life, a reproductive organism (though not individually so), has DNA that is passed to its offspring and made of cells.

-cheers,
the pg

p.s. The choices in the poll are skewed so I’m abstaining.

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the plasticgraduate :
I think by “life” you refer to a collective of living things, (i.e. the human race, dinosaurs, plankton) and not an individual.

No, I'm actually talking about individuals here. Like I said, in a technical sense I believe that each organism is a separate "race" in and of itself so the distinction between a race and an individual is moot – they're the same thing.

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the plasticgraduate :
There are humans who lack consciousness but are certainly alive. The severely handicapped. The comatose. Those who are in a vegetative state. I have no more reason to believe that they are conscious than a sponge or a carrot is, yet, I believe all are alive.

We'll just have to disagree here. I actually don't believe that comatose people are alive. As I pointed out, I believe that all creatures (including humans) are actually machines with the only difference being consciousness. If that's missing, then they're as good as a fridge.

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the plasticgraduate :
No, I would go for a more scientific explanation, carbon and water-based definition of life, a reproductive organism (though not individually so), has DNA that is passed to its offspring and made of cells.

The problem with talking about things like DNA and carbon is that they're arbitrary and are earth specific. I'd like to have a definition of life that isn't restricted to earth. There's no reason for carbon based life forms to be the only type of life.

Already there are problems with DNA on earth itself. Lots of viruses use RNA replication instead – do you feel they're alive?

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the plasticgraduate :
p.s. The choices in the poll are skewed so I’m abstaining.

I aim to please :) – let me know how the choices are skewed and I'll be sure to make it more fair.