Comments on: Trying to make the UID palatable to the common man http://www.bhagwad.com/blog/2009/rights-and-freedoms/privacy/trying-to-make-the-uid-palatable-to-the-common-man.html My thoughts, haikus and freelance musings Fri, 10 Sep 2010 00:24:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: bhagwadhttp://www.bhagwad.com/blog/2009/rights-and-freedoms/privacy/trying-to-make-the-uid-palatable-to-the-common-man.html#comment-628 bhagwad Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:53:37 +0000 http://www.bhagwad.com/blog/?p=1460#comment-628 <a href="#comment-4777" rel="nofollow">@blr_p </a> The substantiating link is in in the article itself. <a href="http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_uid-doesn-t-mean-an-end-to-illegal-immigrants-in-india_1303088" rel="nofollow">Here it is again</a> for easy reference. @blr_p
The substantiating link is in in the article itself. Here it is again for easy reference.

]]> By: blr_phttp://www.bhagwad.com/blog/2009/rights-and-freedoms/privacy/trying-to-make-the-uid-palatable-to-the-common-man.html#comment-631 blr_p Mon, 16 Nov 2009 11:05:14 +0000 http://www.bhagwad.com/blog/?p=1460#comment-631 <i># By definition, this will mean that the various governmental databases will get linked via a “foreign key” which will be the UID itself.</i> Well, this is my point of contention. These databases do not talk to each other. They will be querying the UID databaes to verify whether an entry is unique or not. You are saying that in addition to all these databases querying the UID database that they will ALSO be able to query each other via the UID. But i've not found any justification for this link up to date. Technically its possible sure, but on what grounds do they link up ? The only sentence in that press release that amounts to what you're saying is... <blockquote>"It would enable financial institutions to exchange information regarding defaulters and encourage responsible borrower behaviour."</blockquote> It would enable credit histories for individuals to be created, as exists in quite a few countries already. The only time you care about that is if you want to avail of a loan, so agreed this sytem would defnitely make it harder to defraud banks and is prolly why they are enthuiastic supporters of the project. Could an insurance provider get access to your existing history, only if they make it conditional on you providing it before they offer health coverage. Otherwise i doubt they would legally be able to acquire this info on their own. The more interesting question is what powers would the police have in the process of an investigation. Would they be able to pull out all info related to the individual from various databases ? <i>Make no mistake that this is the ultimate purpose of the UID. If the government can get the power to do so, it will.</i> Absolutely, the question is, could laws crafted specifically for this issue address it ? # By definition, this will mean that the various governmental databases will get linked via a “foreign key” which will be the UID itself.
Well, this is my point of contention. These databases do not talk to each other. They will be querying the UID databaes to verify whether an entry is unique or not.

You are saying that in addition to all these databases querying the UID database that they will ALSO be able to query each other via the UID. But i've not found any justification for this link up to date. Technically its possible sure, but on what grounds do they link up ?

The only sentence in that press release that amounts to what you're saying is…

"It would enable financial institutions to exchange information regarding defaulters and encourage responsible borrower behaviour."

It would enable credit histories for individuals to be created, as exists in quite a few countries already. The only time you care about that is if you want to avail of a loan, so agreed this sytem would defnitely make it harder to defraud banks and is prolly why they are enthuiastic supporters of the project.

Could an insurance provider get access to your existing history, only if they make it conditional on you providing it before they offer health coverage. Otherwise i doubt they would legally be able to acquire this info on their own.

The more interesting question is what powers would the police have in the process of an investigation. Would they be able to pull out all info related to the individual from various databases ?

Make no mistake that this is the ultimate purpose of the UID. If the government can get the power to do so, it will.

Absolutely, the question is, could laws crafted specifically for this issue address it ?

]]> By: bhagwadhttp://www.bhagwad.com/blog/2009/rights-and-freedoms/privacy/trying-to-make-the-uid-palatable-to-the-common-man.html#comment-630 bhagwad Mon, 16 Nov 2009 09:34:00 +0000 http://www.bhagwad.com/blog/?p=1460#comment-630 <a href="#comment-4794" rel="nofollow">@blr_p </a> Nilekani <a href="http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Nilekani-to-give-numbers-ministries-to-issue-cards/articleshow/4782505.cms" rel="nofollow">has made it quite clear</a> that when he issues the UID, other governmental ministries will be encouraged to use it - first as an add on and then as a replacement for numbers like your PAN, passport ID. By definition, this will mean that the various governmental databases will get linked via a "foreign key" which will be the UID itself. The <a href="http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=44711" rel="nofollow">official government release</a> from the "Press Information Bureau" (PIB) says this explicitly in the 3rd, 4th, and 5th paragraphs. Make no mistake that this is the ultimate purpose of the UID. If the government can get the power to do so, it will. The only reason to be happy is that Indians are stubborn and undisciplined. I have full confidence that people won't have the discipline to remember and use a UID card - too much hassle. @blr_p
Nilekani has made it quite clear that when he issues the UID, other governmental ministries will be encouraged to use it – first as an add on and then as a replacement for numbers like your PAN, passport ID.

By definition, this will mean that the various governmental databases will get linked via a "foreign key" which will be the UID itself. The official government release from the "Press Information Bureau" (PIB) says this explicitly in the 3rd, 4th, and 5th paragraphs.

Make no mistake that this is the ultimate purpose of the UID. If the government can get the power to do so, it will. The only reason to be happy is that Indians are stubborn and undisciplined. I have full confidence that people won't have the discipline to remember and use a UID card – too much hassle.

]]> By: blr_phttp://www.bhagwad.com/blog/2009/rights-and-freedoms/privacy/trying-to-make-the-uid-palatable-to-the-common-man.html#comment-629 blr_p Mon, 16 Nov 2009 09:13:34 +0000 http://www.bhagwad.com/blog/?p=1460#comment-629 The only 'link' that I can see in the DNA article is UID helps to rid each individual database of duplicate entries by using the UID# as an additional key and that the NPR will be based on census data. <i># Now suppose all the data from the various government departments is aggregated.</i> Aggregation would be illegal as per the above linked document whose legal clauses one understands will eventually, make it into the yet-to-be-passed UIDAI Act of Parliament. The only 'link' that I can see in the DNA article is UID helps to rid each individual database of duplicate entries by using the UID# as an additional key and that the NPR will be based on census data.

# Now suppose all the data from the various government departments is aggregated.
Aggregation would be illegal as per the above linked document whose legal clauses one understands will eventually, make it into the yet-to-be-passed UIDAI Act of Parliament.

]]> By: blr_phttp://www.bhagwad.com/blog/2009/rights-and-freedoms/privacy/trying-to-make-the-uid-palatable-to-the-common-man.html#comment-627 blr_p Mon, 16 Nov 2009 08:43:02 +0000 http://www.bhagwad.com/blog/?p=1460#comment-627 <i># The real reason is that the UID will act as a <b>link</b> between various government databases.</i>Can you substantiate this statement. Where does the justification to link the different databases come from ?As i understand UID, its purpose would be to weed out dupes in the individual databases and thats as far as it goes.Check out the legal section in this <a HREF="http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Confidential_plans_for_1.2_billion_ID_cards:_Creating_a_Unique_ID_for_every_resident_in_India%2C_Nov_2009" rel="nofollow">document</A> # The real reason is that the UID will act as a link between various government databases.

Can you substantiate this statement. Where does the justification to link the different databases come from ?

As i understand UID, its purpose would be to weed out dupes in the individual databases and thats as far as it goes.

Check out the legal section in this document

]]> By: ChristineMariehttp://www.bhagwad.com/blog/2009/rights-and-freedoms/privacy/trying-to-make-the-uid-palatable-to-the-common-man.html#comment-626 ChristineMarie Sat, 07 Nov 2009 03:23:24 +0000 http://www.bhagwad.com/blog/?p=1460#comment-626 <a href="#comment-4456" rel="nofollow">@bhagwad </a>Trump funny you should say that, lol It wouldn't surprise me to see "Hhis" name pop up w/ Nilekani. The partnerships are quiet impressive.Welcome to the Machine my friend. You are indeed being assimilated. @bhagwad

Trump funny you should say that, lol It wouldn’t surprise me to see “Hhis” name pop up w/ Nilekani. The partnerships are quiet impressive.

Welcome to the Machine my friend. You are indeed being assimilated.

]]> By: bhagwadhttp://www.bhagwad.com/blog/2009/rights-and-freedoms/privacy/trying-to-make-the-uid-palatable-to-the-common-man.html#comment-625 bhagwad Sat, 07 Nov 2009 02:47:06 +0000 http://www.bhagwad.com/blog/?p=1460#comment-625 <a href="#comment-4451" rel="nofollow">@ChristineMarie </a> Scary stuff. Looks like India's trying trump this with an even bigger database. @ChristineMarie
Scary stuff. Looks like India’s trying trump this with an even bigger database.

]]> By: ChristineMariehttp://www.bhagwad.com/blog/2009/rights-and-freedoms/privacy/trying-to-make-the-uid-palatable-to-the-common-man.html#comment-624 ChristineMarie Sat, 07 Nov 2009 00:57:12 +0000 http://www.bhagwad.com/blog/?p=1460#comment-624 U.S. Builds Largest Biometric Database One of the most important innovations in the FBI's post-9/11 counterterrorism efforts consists of a portable workstation and a miniaturesatellite dish. Called the Quick Capture Platform (QCP), it electronically scans fingerprints and beams them to a database here."What it provides is the capability from anywhere for an agent to send prints to the FBI's Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System (IAFIS) and the Defense Dept.'s Automatic Biometric Identification System (ABIS)," says Roy Bowlen of the FBI, who helped develop the system.IAFIS and ABIS together make up the largest trove of fingerprint data in the world.The fingerprints are scanned into a digital format and data are beamed via satellite to an underground data center. There, the computerized systems search the database and shoot back matches, "a lot of times in under 2 min.," says Bowlen.http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=defense&id=news/SCAN110509.xml&headline=U.S.%20Builds%20Largest%20Biometric%20Database U.S. Builds Largest Biometric Database
One of the most important innovations in the FBI’s post-9/11 counterterrorism efforts consists of a portable workstation and a miniaturesatellite dish. Called the Quick Capture Platform (QCP), it electronically scans fingerprints and beams them to a database here.

“What it provides is the capability from anywhere for an agent to send prints to the FBI’s Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System (IAFIS) and the Defense Dept.’s Automatic Biometric Identification System (ABIS),” says Roy Bowlen of the FBI, who helped develop the system.

IAFIS and ABIS together make up the largest trove of fingerprint data in the world.

The fingerprints are scanned into a digital format and data are beamed via satellite to an underground data center. There, the computerized systems search the database and shoot back matches, “a lot of times in under 2 min.,” says Bowlen.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=defense&id=news/SCAN110509.xml&headline=U.S.%20Builds%20Largest%20Biometric%20Database

]]> By: ChristineMariehttp://www.bhagwad.com/blog/2009/rights-and-freedoms/privacy/trying-to-make-the-uid-palatable-to-the-common-man.html#comment-623 ChristineMarie Sat, 07 Nov 2009 00:55:28 +0000 http://www.bhagwad.com/blog/?p=1460#comment-623 http://www.uidsummit.com/ http://www.uidsummit.com/

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