Against Tipping – My First Post to Cross One Thousand Comments :)

There are a bunch of posts on my blog that invite a lot of controversy. A lot of them have to do with debating right wing stuff. Surprisingly however, the most commented on post has nothing to do with India. It talks about my dislike for tipping as demanded in the United States. A few days back, that post crossed 1000 comments. The first to do so.

It’s a simple premise really. Waiters say they don’t get paid enough and so we should tip. I say it’s not my problem, that I’m not their boss, that they’re hired by the restaurant and my interaction is with the restaurant alone. I couldn’t care less about their woes. This doesn’t mean that I view serving as a menial job or that waiters are somehow “lesser” than any other profession. On the contrary, by treating them the same way I treat everyone else I’m showing my respect and regard for them.

This particular post of mine has been reproduced on waiter sites and pro tipping sites like ifyoucantaffordtotip.com and I’ve got legions of visitors from those sources lambasting me for cheating waiters etc. Some of them tried to “shame” me into removing the post. My picture and Facebook account etc are all freely available. As I wrote earlier, I don’t mind being abused and so use my real name while blogging. “Shaming me” is not going to work.

I wonder if any other post of mine is ever going to get the same amount of attention that this one got :)

 

What do you think of this post?
  • You're an asshole (48)
  • Agree (23)
  • Don't Agree but Interesting (1)

84 thoughts on “Against Tipping – My First Post to Cross One Thousand Comments :)”

  1. I’ve followed the original post but did not want to add to the mess that is the comments section of that post. I humbly request everyone who wishes to retaliate with spite to keep his or her comments on that post to the fact., Since it’s already a mess and in an effort to keep this new blog civil, although I have no right to say so because this is not my blog. It’s merely a request.

    That said, I’d like to add my my input.

    1. I agree with Bhagwad almost entirely but with a tolerance.

    2. I’ve come across or heard about many servers with college education or beyond who chose to be restaurant servers for various reasons – recession, low wages, etc.

    3. I have no issues with individuals who fall in the above category. If it were me, I’d do the same to maximize my finances. I infer that most of us would feel the same. BUT I would not do it at the customer’s expense. As a waiter, I wouldn’t demand it from the customer. I’d take what I get and be happy.

    4. You might ask, “What if everyone started doing that?” Well, just the fact that one can do it and still not be legally held responsible for it should tell you something. Restaurants don’t care because they’re greedy. Servers turn a blind eye to the restaurant’s less-than-minimum-wage policy because most make handsomely in just tips. So, in the end, the customer ends up bearing the brunt of the service industry’s greediness, no matter the prevailing culture. This should not happen. I don’t particularly like having to say what I’m about to say because this point has been beaten to death, much along the lines of, “I love black people; my best friend is black”. But yes, it looks like I have to say so. America has a great culture in many respects. But there are major issues as well. If you don’t believe me, change your channel to C-SPAN and the like. There are debates everyday regarding current laws and their loopholes, and numerous other current affairs. So, I urge the waitstaff to either protest against their current wages or be content with the tips you get or don’t get. But demanding tips is not right.

    5. Furthering point 3, if you’re not happy with your tips, why don’t you choose another profession. I don’t agree with the notion that if the tips are included in the final bill, food prices would rise. If they do rise at your restaurant, I guarantee you that a new restaurant will spring up in the vicinity that charges much less and yet offers an equitable palate while making profit. Reason: They’re not greedy. They might get greedy eventually but if so, another establishment will be up in the vicinity that would be far less greedy. This is Capitalism as we know it and cherish.

    What some of you say is the same as “having your cake and eating it too” and are completely OK with it, but the rest of us are just not OK with it when it’s at our expense. What you’re doing almost borders on a socialistic agenda. Then, if Socialism is what you want, you’re in the wrong place; it doesn’t matter whether you’re born here or a “red blooded” American. Don’t just stand up for what suits your convenience; just doing that doesn’t make you a American. Stand up for what it should be and aim towards it. That’s what makes you an American!

    6. Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah…..

    Well, no offense guys. Just my 2 cents.

    Reply

  2. It’s really easy to sit in your gilded tower and dictate where the sever went wrong. Don’t you think that if we could get better jobs we would? I categorically reject “Anonymous’s” statement. Most workers at Wal-Mart depend on state-assisted programs (like food stamps) to make ends-meet. I guess if they REALLY cared about their finances they could just find better jobs as accountants or CEOs….do you hear yourself? Jobs are hard enough to come by regardless of the financial crisis that has effected the global population.

    Also, severs aren’t turning a blind eye to the restaurants that hire them, the government sets minimum wage at $2.13 an hour for workers in our category. The restaurants are following the law. The customer isn’t “bearing the brunt of the service industry’s greediness,” the customer is paying for a service. If you don’t like that fact….stay home, go to McDonalds or pay the 15-18 percent. The only person being greedy is you. Tips are not supplement to our income, it IS our income. America is a tipping culture and that’s how it goes. If you don’t like it move to Europe and/or don’t visit our country.

    Reply

    • In reply to Anon

      Whether you have the ability to get better jobs or not is not of concern to me or others.

      Most workers at Wal-Mart are also senior citizens who depend on Social Security and Disability apart from food stamps. But that’s beside the point. I don’t get what you’re trying to say here. Please stick to the facts at hand instead of mixing things up.

      I hear myself quite well, thank you; maybe you should try it. Financial crisis, recession, etc. have no business in this argument. Please take Logic 101 so that you can make logically sound arguments.

      Oh, so you’re conveniently placing the blame on the Govt. now? Well, if it’s so bad, why don’t you protest for a higher wage? Exactly my point – you don’t want to. Just admit it already…

      No, I won’t move to Europe and I also won’t tip thank you very much!

      Reply

      • In reply to Anonymous

        This comment makes you a cunt…please just go out to eat at McDonalds and places your not suppose to tip cuz your fucking with peoples income n how they live i dont think youd like it if someone affected they way yoh live cuz youre so little minded and so stupid

        Reply

  3. Bhagwad, I agree with you. A tip by definition is a reward for services rendered. It is not a payment.

    Here in Singapore, a 7% service tax (tip) is included in the bill. Hence, the service provided by the staff is not always up to par.

    A couple of months ago, I went on a cruise. Gratuity for the cabin boy and the waiting staff were included in the total ticket price I.e. we had to pay the tip even before we boarded the ship. I later heard that this particular cruise line pays waiters and cabin boys $50 per month and the rest of their salary comes from gratuities.

    Reply

      • In reply to bhagwad

        Great. Then you will by law also be charged sales tax on the tip as well as the meal if it’s part of the up-front cost that appears on your bill. Is that what you want? I’ve said it many times before, the only winner in the arguments you pose is the government. You’ll get much higher menu prices when the higher costs of labor (plus Social Security, plus FICA, plus, Unemployment, plus Insurance, plus paid sick days – which servers do not get – plus Vacation and other Benefits, none of which the restaurant currently charges you for) are added to your meal. And then you’ll also have to pay higher sales tax on top of all that. The way things are now, you don’t pay sales tax on any of this. So if the restaurant added NONE of the above I mentioned to your bill (and they’d have to, under the system you propose) but only added 20% gratuity to every bill, then you’d be okay also being charged an additional 7 or 12% sales tax on that amount, on top of that added charge? Why not just tip according to the social norm, and save yourself some money? Lots of money?

        Reply

      • In reply to Guy Malone

        Good points, but all this only means that somewhere, someplace things are screwed up. A reform is in the calling. Passing all these costs to the customer is not a solution. How else do countries like Norway, Switzerland and Singapore don’t have issues like this? They have minimal issues in almost all other aspects as well, although that’s beside the point. They definitely don’t have such issues and their “machines” are well oiled and run smoothly. Maybe we should adopt their policies. And I don’t believe that they’re able to find such solutions because they’re much smaller countries. That may very well be, but such policies are definitely scalable although some refining might be necessary. What works for one should work for all, else we cannot call them good solutions; but we know they work in above countries.

        Reply

      • In reply to Guy Malone

        First off servers do pay taxes on there tips! At the end of the year when we file taxes we usually owe money not get money you dumbass.. maybe you all should do your research about serving before opening your stupid ass mouths about shit you dont even know

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  4. It’s so crazy how wrong you are and so demeaning in your ignorance when you obviously have NO IDEA what you’re talking about.

    1. It is part of a servers job to be friendly and pleasant. If you have some sort of issue with interacting with people or seeing people smile, then you should probably stop by a Wendy’s drive thru for dinner. Your bill that you think covers every expense, DOESN’T. Hence the reason tipping even exists. Servers on average make no more than $3 an hour which gets taken in taxes leaving $0 pay checks. This has nothing to do with the employer because even huge corporate companies work this way. You are left with the CHOICE of the amount of tip assuming that most decent knowledgeable people will leave something for servers to make at least a minimum wage hourly. It’s never really an issue because fortunately there are few of you out there that think the way you do.

    2. You’re seriously talking about integrity with a post like that? Servers WORK for their money. It’s not all nice and written out in a check every Friday. Every dollar they get is EARNED. Obviously no thanks to rude, misinformed people like yourself.

    3. Servers do not just take your food to you, and actually if you paid close enough attention, you would realize that there is usually a person who’s job is solemnly RUNNING FOOD. When you go out to eat you’re going for a service. You’re going out to eat because you want to sit, relax, and be taken care of. When you receive good service, YOU TIP. So if you still don’t get it, a server is there to “serve” you, and not for free because again, tips are the only source of income. You’re basically wasting space and air when you go out to eat. Just STAY HOME.

    And lastly, If money does not grow on trees and this is your concern, you should probably consider the Wendy’s value meals when you’re in that drive thru. A server is not “lucky” to get your 10% because you obviously want and so desperately need it wayyyyy more. A tip is not a favor. A tip means someone making enough money for rent, to feed their family, or hell, a new pair of shoes.

    If after 1000 comments and so much controversy of people trying to make you understand how you’re wrong and you still don’t get it, you’re simply put, ARROGANT.

    Reply

  5. “I wonder if any other post of mine is ever going to get the same amount of attention that this one got :)”

    probably not, no one cares about india.

    Reply

    • In reply to jake

      Ha Haa, actually they do care about India. You’re just removed from reality.

      They care so much that people from all over the world will soon be lining up to work in India, as they already are. Say what you will, but China and India are going to be the next big thing; and to a lesser extent, Brazil. I don’t hold much hope for Russia yet.

      America will still be a superpower. But it won’t be alone. It’ll share that status with China and India come 2030.

      Remember that we’re all very small pawns in a much bigger picture. The universe has existed for some 14 billion years and will continue to be much longer after we’re all extinct. America, China, India etc. etc. are not going to matter when the good old sun engulfs the earth and everything shrinks back to a black hole. The only thing that’s going to matter is our consciousness before we hit the dust.

      But should you still feel the urge to troll and nit-pick, do it somewhere else, eh mate? Now, go have a beer on me;)

      Reply

  6. Where are you going where a tip is “demanded?” I have been a restaurant server for 5 years and I have NEVER demanded a tip from any guests that have come into my restaurant. I have never met any server, at my restaurant or any other establishment, who has demanded a tip. It is customary to tip a server who is tending to your every need during the dining experience. If I get stiffed on a check, am I upset? It depends. If you’re dining alone and your check is only around $20, I probably won’t sweat it. If it’s $50 or more, I probably will care. This affects my overall sales and how much I am supposed to claim in tips at the end of a night. What I earn is for the majority based on my tips, my checks for 2 weeks of work (part-time at say 30 hours per week) are usually just over $100. If I received just my checks alone, I wouldn’t be able to support myself.

    I see that you understand that you should pay for the cost of food, and all that goes along with it. If you don’t want to tip, order something “to go.” Or go to a food court at a mall. Here’s a thought.. brush up on your cooking skills and prepare yourself something at home. You might be surprised at what culinary creations you can come up with!

    My basic understanding of how you conceive dining out, is you pay for a product, not a service. I took a look at your freelancing website and saw your prices. How did you come up with a cost of $0.04/ word?? Technically words have no monetary value, so why should you be paid at all for the SERVICES you offer to people?

    Reply

    • In reply to Anonymous

      I don’t recollect saying anywhere that a service has no value. I’m saying that the value of the service is folded into the single bill I pay just like the services of a walmart cashier are folded into the cost of items I buy from there.

      Reply

      • In reply to bhagwad

        And what hundreds of people have been trying to tell you (to no avail, apparently) is that NO the “value of the service” you receive at a full-service restaurant actually is NOT “folded into the single bill” which you pay at the end of your meal! You just want to keep arguing the point as if this were actually true. But American restaurants do not work the same way that American Wal-Marts do. Wal-Mart cashiers actually DO receive a wage and a paycheck commensurate to the work that they do… and these same cashiers do NOT pay the person who stocked the shelves, brought the carts back into the building, or cleaned the restroom you pissed in out of their own pocket, in the same way that waiters are required to pay the busboys, the bartenders, and the hostesses you also were attended to by, during your dining experience. FACT: The servers pay a large portion of those people’s wages out of their total tips for the shift – they have to pay it proportionately to the amount of food and beverages that you consume, whether you personally tip the server or not. You literally are stealing the other tips they made that night from them, when you do not tip and contribute to the overall “tip pool” for that night, because they pay it to the others EVERY TIME whether you tip or not. Your argument is, in fact, quite valid IF you were anywhere near correct on this point. But you’re just not. You argue solely from “the way you think it should be” but it turns out that you are flat wrong about how things actually are. Waiters (practically speaking) do NOT get paid ANYTHING by the restaurants from the bill you pay at the end of your meal, in the way that Wal-Mart cashiers (and everyone else I mentioned) gets paid by Wal-Mart when you shop there. The cooks do, and the dishwashers do – and the mangers and the owners get paid as well – that’s about it. The servers DO NOT, and YOU KNOW BY NOW that this is truth. Without debating whether this is right or wrong, I’m just telling you that this REALLY IS the way it IS. It’s not going to change based on your blog either. You need to STOP debating whether the system is right or wrong in fact Bhag, and just face the facts of what really IS the system. (Well, I don’t mean to infringe upon your right to debate – feel free to do so in fact, that’s one of the great things about America – but you still need to tip unless or until your debating actually changes the system, is what I mean.) For now however, you are 100% incorrect in your assessment of how things actually work, because all you repeatedly want to argue is how you THINK things should work, and by now you seem to be willfully ignorant and blind to admitting the truth. Stop being arrogant and learn something. You’ve received more than enough feedback by now to explain to you how things really do work, and by now it’s safe to assume that you have chosen to ignore all of the facts that have been presented to you solely in order to stick your original, uneducated and uninformed argument on the topic. Congrats on your 1,000 comment milestone by the way, and I will say that I’ve looked over much more of your site by now, and can say that I agree with you on some other issues in fact – those that you have the expertise to speak on at least. But you do not know what you’re talking about on the tipping subject. At this point it’s obvious that you just want your original, misinformed article, to be right, more than you want to know, or speak, the truth. I’m just telling you, that such will never be. The only way that you can be right (especially morally) in your arguments and your actions is to “drop out” of the system which you apparently disagree with, and only eat at places that do not offer you sit-down services – fast food, drive-through places, and the like. But with the amount of correction you have received on this topic by now, know that when you choose not to tip 15-20% at full-service restaurants, you are willfully stealing money from other people who worked for it. Your arguments on how you thing things should work will never measure up to how you now know things really are. You are merely taking gross advantage of a loophole in a system that you disagree with, and you are purposefully hurting people in the process.

        Reply

  7. And THIS is exactly why servers hate waiting on Indians. Thank you for encouraging the stereotype that y’all are all greedy, cheap pricks. Congratulations. We usually stoop down to your level so we can hear you because you either don’t speak up, it’s too loud, or we can’t understand you. We sure as hell don’t want to be your best friend. We’re here to do our jobs by giving you food and drinks. That’s it. If you’re needy, you can eat at home or go to Wendy’s. It’s a SERVICE industry. YOU PAY for OUR SERVICE. Period. If you don’t like it. Go home.

    THE GOVERNMENT is the one that sets our wages. If they didn’t, our employers would be paying us the $7.55 an hour min. wage which means our employers would have to find a way to offset that so food prices would go up and your $8 burger and fries just turned into a $14 burger and $4 fries. So you’re welcome.

    No one ever spits in people’s food. We would be fired. And by the time you pay your bill and we see your tip, you have already left, so we wouldn’t have even gotten a chance to do that.

    Waiter’s aren’t skilled? We have to put up with absolutely shitheads like you every day, ungrateful, cheapskate, arrogant bastards like yourself. We balance trays, carry hot plates, and hold 18 drinks for your giant party that will be the death of us. We hold back our thoughts and feelings when you’re being a dick. We try not to roll our eyes when you ask us for the ninth side of curry that you’ve gone through. That’s pretty skilled. We should be paid “extra” for bringing you your food, and taking your complicated order, and even having to deal with your presence. It’s exhausting. If you don’t want to pay for that, you can sit your ass at home and enjoy your own food that you can cook for yourself!

    I’ll pray for you at night to get hit by a car for your shitty 10% tip. You work for the money in your wallet, and we work for the money in ours, by taking care of you and trying to ensure you have the best meal and experience possible. Be grateful. If we weren’t around you’d be at Wendy’s making their lives miserable or like I said, at home eating your food that you made your wife cook while you sat down and did nothing.

    I hope for your sake that you change your mind and learn how to tip like a decent human being, otherwise expect the shittiest service you’ve ever had because no one wants to wait on you because they know you’re the asshole that won’t tip for shit.

    Reply

    • In reply to Macy

      Huh? I re read my post and there was nothing about India in it. Where did that come from?

      You haven’t explained though why customers and not your employers should pay you for doing your job. I don’t pay walmart cashiers so why should I pay you?

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      • In reply to bhagwad

        Ok Indian or whatever race you are. You’re all shitty tippers.

        Way to ignore everything else I said… makes sense. Walmart cashiers get an hourly pay. We live off of tips. If you don’t want to tip, keep your broke, cheap ass at home. Simple as that.

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      • In reply to bhagwad

        You are a cheap ass!! Shame on you!! celebrating a 1000 comments? i bet all of them are negative ones! look at you, Posing with a cup of coffee in the picture as if you are some intellectual philosopher, Dickhead is what u really are!! your spoiling the name of Indians all around the world!! if u came to my restaurant i would not only spit in your food but id mix some dog shit and cat piss in it too!!
        * id add some horse sperm and mix it all well for u!! I have seen ur face…Beware Bhagwatfuck!!

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      • In reply to bhagwad

        Honestly it is because with a cashier the routine is the exact same, every single time. Working in restaurants, it requires more effort to give good service, which is what most people want. The price you pay for food is lower as a result of this, and tipping 1$ – 5$ is completely acceptable to most servers (depending on size of the order). This is not a lot of money, and it is the way the system works, you shouldn’t complain about it like you do, either way you need to be covering the cost of the business (and its employees), whether the balance is made up through a tip or through the cost of the food. I have to agree if you don’t tip at all here, you must be a cheap bastard at heart, even though you are trying to pose as an intellectual.

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      • In reply to Reply

        “But I don’t mind. I don’t care. Words are just words and I always let a comment stand if it has even a passing acquaintance with the subject of my post.”

        Man this is exactly why this world is going to die an ugly death. This is called ignorance. Words convey meaning, thought. What you’re saying is basically that when you make a post, you have already decided you are right and regardless of the comments, what people say, you are not going to let them affect you. It’s too bad.

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      • In reply to bhagwad

        Yes, you do pay Wal-Mart cashiers .. it’s just that what you pay them is built into the price of the goods you purchase (as I explained above). This is not how restaurants work however, and you know it. BUT FOR ARGUMENT’S SAKE … Let’s say that you did walk into a Wal-Mart, and a moment later you sat your butt down. Then you were handed a tasty beverage, and then you gave the cashier your shopping list to fulfill for you while you talked with your friends, waited awhile, and then that Wal-Mart cashier walked all over the building on your behalf and then later brought you your shopping cart full of goods … How much higher do you think your bill would be if that happened? And would you be willing to pay for it? If your answer is no, then STOP GOING TO RESTAURANTS. Next time you’re hungry, go to a convenience market, walk down the aisle, get yourself a burrito, microwave it yourself, pour yourself a coffee, and then stand in line to pay for the food your received, and then enjoy eating it in your car which only you have to clean. We have a phrase in America that goes “comparing apples with oranges” … They are different things Bhag! Every Wal-mart analogy you make in this blog fails completely, because you are not rightly comparing services. At Wal-Mart, you personally do most of the labor that you receive at restaurants, which is why you don’t pay the cashier anything above the shelf tags for your items. Stop being arrogant, and stop using false logic to support your cheapness. If you got the same service at a Wal-Mart that you got at a restaurant, your argument would approach being valid. But you don’t, and your arguments are nothing but “straw men” – STOP IT! It would cost you twice as much before you left, for Wal-Mart to pay enough people to do all of that for you – and for everybody else who walked in expecting the same thing. Stop using false examples and inadequate analogies to support your faulty premises, cheap views, and invalid arguments. You lost this argument before you even began – it’s just that you’re the only person who doesn’t see it. Everybody else just sees a cheap asshole who feels an inappropriate sense of entitlement and an unrealistically inflated sense of self-worth who doesn’t value the hard work of others but who wants to convince himself that he sounds like an eloquent philosopher and great mind. Hey, maybe you are a good philosopher and a great mind for that matter – on other topics – bit you’ve wandered into an arena that you are not qualified to speak on. And great philosopher or not, all everybody else takes away from your work (on this topic anyways) is that you’re a lousy human being.

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  8. you are garbage

    Also, how can some one spit in your food if you don’t tip? By the time you’re afforded the opportunity to tip you should have already finished your meal. Do you mean they’ll spit in what’s left of your food when they take it back to the dishwasher?

    I tried to find an answer to this in the last post and didn’t see it. The answer is probably that you are dumb.

    You also called this temporal impossibility of a process black mail. Black mail refers to threatening to divulge embarrassing or criminal details about the victim. You have already thoroughly shamed yourself, so blackmail seems impossible.

    You seem like the worst kind of person, that smug baseless intellectual type common amongst female freshmen at state schools. At least a server has some degree of utility, not like some grown man posting haikus and asking if music goes to heaven.

    Reply

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