I’m sick of seeing semi-gleeful reactions to Indra K. Nooyi, the CEO of Pepsi’s statement about how women “can’t have it all”. What shocks me more than the garbage her mother gave her about how she should “leave that crown in the garage” is the fact that she accepted it. A more appropriate reaction would have been to slam the door in her face and ask her to leave the house the next day. Read her account of what happened in the first paragraph. And tell me it doesn’t want to make you puke. Let’s go over the little things one by one.
The husband is “tired”, but apparently she can’t be
Nooyi comes home from work at midnight and her mother (who seems to have sat up late just to deliver this little gem), tells her that she needs to get milk. When Nooyi asks her why she didn’t request her hubby instead who came back four freaking hours ago, the mother replied that “he was tired”.
I guess I missed that part of female biology which exempts them from getting tired as well. That too when she’s back home four hours after the male. Also if he was tired at 8 o’clock, he must sure be feeling refreshed now right? I’m not blaming the husband here – without further information I can’t tell whether or not he knew what was happening behind his back and if he was aware of his mother in law acting like a total jerk to her own daughter. So he gets the benefit of the doubt.
Oh one other thing. What exactly prevented the mother from getting the damn milk herself?! Was she bedridden?
Like I said, I’m not shocked that the mother behaved in this atrocious manner per se. What pisses me off is that an educated, “empowered”, confident woman like Nooyi presumably is, just sucked it up and took it to heart. Her mother told her:
“You might be president of PepsiCo. You might be on the board of directors. But when you enter this house, you’re the wife, you’re the daughter, you’re the daughter-in-law, you’re the mother. You’re all of that. Nobody else can take that place. So leave that damned crown in the garage. And don’t bring it into the house. You know I’ve never seen that crown.”
Notice the complete lack of enthusiasm, surprise, joy and the general absence of a congratulatory atmosphere. Oh, your daughter is now the CEO of Pepsi? Screw that! Let’s put her in her place by condescendingly referring to her “crown” and bring her back to reality. “Now go get some milk!”
Dear Mom. Meet door.
Apparently men can “have it all”?
Ok, she makes a fair point. Here it is:
“I don’t think women can have it all. I just don’t think so. We pretend we have it all. We pretend we can have it all. My husband and I have been married for 34 years. And we have two daughters. And every day you have to make a decision about whether you are going to be a wife or a mother.”
This sounds reasonable. Except that it doesn’t just apply to women now does it? She talks about how “WE” pretend and “WE” can’t have it all, obviously referring specifically to women. But why? Is it possible for a man to spend hours upon hours every day with his kids and also spend bucketloads of time at work? No, it isn’t!
So why may I ask is this little dialogue restricted only to women? What the hell are you trying to imply? I know what it is. You think that women have some god sent duty to take care of the family and children and that men are exempt from this kind of work. Otherwise you would never have restricted your insights to one gender alone. Apparently a woman having a work/life balance isn’t “having it all”, but a man doing the same is A-ok.
Honestly, women like this who buy into the stereotype bullshit and from whom you expect better, do more to harm gender equality than anyone else. Because people listen to them. If a khap panchayat makes a statement like this, you can pity them (to an extent) and say that they’re jerks who don’t know better. But coming from a successful woman, it’s much more horrific.
So let’s push back on this “women can’t have it all” crap. Because men can’t either.
Slam the door on mother’s face? We from conservative upbringing don’t do that. We keep our egos in check. That is why we are achievers.
In reply to Mihir
Sorry to bust your bubble, but we’re not. And who is “we” anyway?
In reply to bhagwad
Indra Nooyi never fails to mention about the conservative outlook at her home. Like most from similar background, there are moments of defiance but the basic values don’t change.
Outrage bloggers spend too much time judging others. It is difficult for them to appreciate these basic values and the need to keep the ego in check.
In reply to Mihir
Looks like the mother is the one who needs to keep her ego in check. She obviously has some inferiority complex when it comes to her daughter. Otherwise no one would behave in such a dirty way.
In reply to Mihir
Basic ‘values’ of putting down your daughter because she has achieved something in life? We can do without these values.
In reply to bhagwad
I too couldn’t have asked my mother to leave but please enlighten me how keeping egos in check leads to success?
In reply to Sraboney
Assuming your question is sincere, I quote Robert Schuller:
“God can do tremendous things through the person who doesn’t care about who gets the credit. Ego involvement must go. Before God trusts you with success, you have to prove yourself humble enough to handle the big prize.”
For genuine seekers of the Truth, ‘ego’ is a major topic. Ask any outrage blogger: “What is your big achievement in life?” The reply will be “I sat there and passed judgement”.
But what is the root cause of judging? It is our ego.
First, the ego compares the self with others, often putting others down to temporarily boost up the self. Then it starts to compete, trying to prove that it is better. “I would have never have done that…”
Then, it isn’t long until the criticism comes, which quickly leads to condemnation. “Isn’t he awful…”
Once we’ve reached this state, there’s no peace left in our mind and no love left in our heart—and therefore, no happiness.
So, what’s the antidote to judging? Acceptance.
My teacher often says, “The ego can’t bear acceptance. It lives on resisting.”
When I realize that I’ve slipped into judging, to get out of it, I focus on accepting the person or the situation. (This doesn’t mean that you have to agree; you just have to accept what is!)
Agree. These women do more damage than good. Also, this guilt thing! What the heck for? She’s said in many forums that her husband is the one who’s been around enough for her to get where she is, so I don’t even buy this insane need for milk that late in the night and who gets to go and buy it. There is 1 adult and 2 helpers in the picture other than the couple.
As for ‘mom, meet the door’, it won’t work because she’s also being co-parent. Many parents end up having to put up with these inputs and get the support they need or scale back somewhere to do it themselves.
In reply to Sangitha
I’m just curious why only women are made to feel guilty about not spending time at home and the men are exempt from said guilt. Weird!
In reply to bhagwad
Ah! I thought I was the only one who hated such kind of interviews! You would have also noticed that every time there is an interview of some successful female entrepreneur the first question would be ‘How do you manage to balance both work and home?’. I have never seen such a question directed to successful males. What the hell! Everybody is supposed to try their best to achieve a work-life balance not just women!
Maybe 20 years ago it would have made sense to ask such a question (with justified wonderment) at the sight of a female in the higher echelons of corporate world. But its 2014 now! People should get used to seeing women everywhere. This is just another way of enforcing gender stereotypes! Let them ask the same question to a successful businessman. I would love to see the expression on that unsuspecting man.
In reply to The Gender Nazi
Lol, yeah! No one directs this question towards successful men.
In fact, I find it a little bit insulting. It’s as if they’re saying “Oh, you’re a guy? I don’t expect you to have a family life in any case. So let’s just skip over it entirely!”
In reply to bhagwad
I think because mostly only women allow it. It is on the same level as being macho (femino?) about pain – did you know it isn’t the ‘real’ way to get an epidural at childbirth? Or being all superior about breast feeding. You’re even supposed to be guilty for not being guilty.
That’s so not happening for me. Do your best. Shuck the guilt or actually change to do what one thinks is required.
In reply to Sangitha
I wouldn’t say it happens only because women allow it. I was asked about my marriage plans in my interview and I asked them back if they would be asking me that question of I were a man. I was told that women generally quit and leave after marriage, which is why they ask. I don’t understand why they think men won’t quit. Everyone quits at some point or the other. So this is just a social perception clubbing women and marriage / kids / family together while men apparently operate all on their own.
In reply to Fem
Fem, most women wouldn’t have pushed back. Glad you did, need much more of this. Assumptions will only then change.
In reply to bhagwad
These generalizations and assumptions never fail to mystify me. Let us assume that more women quit their jobs post-marriage compared to men (they do, shouldn’t have to but they do). Instead of finding out why – maybe they (men and women) would benefit from flexible work hours or telecommuting or even just better child care nearby – and working to rectify the situation accordingly, companies resort to ‘clarifying’ marriage plans/not hiring women.
The sort of options I outlined above would be better for all of us, not just women specifically. Both genders have to make adjustments on getting married, becoming parents etc. Why is it assumed that men do not have to make compromises or adjust? I’ve seen many couples where the husband moved or changed jobs after the wedding. Apparently, managers who ask such questions didn’t get that memo!
I wish we were living in a world where it is acknowledged that both men and women have other responsibilities apart from work that are just as , if not more, important as work – like taking care of kids/parents etc. Right now, companies seem to think that those ‘other’ things should be taken care of on personal time even though modern jobs leave precious little personal time! I mean, if you have to take a Wednesday afternoon off to see your kids’ dance performance and are willing to make it up by working late or on the weekend, why shouldn’t you? Oh that’s right, coz many managers think that working late/weekends is something you’re already doing by default :(
In reply to Shilpa J
I sort of agree, but I will say this. In sheer capitalism, men/women have the CHOICE of working an 8 hour job. If they don’t like it, find work elsewhere, right?
I mean, if your kids mean so much to you, perhaps you should work closer to home, that way you have easier access to both work and home.
Also, if you don’t like working weekends/ late, find another job. They are out there.
This shouldn’t be a gender issue. This should be a strict capitalist issue.
Simply loved your reaction and the very relevant question you have put forth about why the work-balance query is never considered for men. It is still a sad reality that women (especially Indian women) are still expected to shoulder most of the burden of family and housework and I had expressed my emotions and opinions in an article in the past: http://dfsk.wordpress.com/2012/03/10/guest-post-invisible-multiple-arms-in-womens-web-magazine
Your refreshing point of view that even men cannot have it all is so very true. Why is it always, always considered with women in mind? I had never thought of it that way before since I was so used to having this question thrown at us women always and struggling to figure out the real answer. Suddenly I feel so much better having the genders equalized by having to share the same problem. This is one step towards equality – having the same expectations and issues regarding balancing work and family, regardless of gender!
In reply to Dancing Fingers Singing Keypad
Read your post and yeah, the hypocrisy is obvious. I’m still having discussions with people on Facebook about this post who insist that women have it “inbuilt” in them, and I keep telling them that nothing is inbuilt. It’s all put there by guilt and expectations.
I’m not actually horrified at her mother, I expect plenty of working Indian women put up with some variant of this from their mothers. I don’t know why but from my limited experience with friends and family, it’s more likely to be the father who encourages the working daughter than the mother. But I am horrified at her response/actions and the other incident at her daughter’s school she mentions. There are so many things wrong with that I can hardly put it into words! But I will try…
About the _women can’t have it all_ question: She’s not the first woman to be asked that and the answer is simple: *No one can*. Period.
Class coffee with mothers incident:
1. Really? Her response is to get a list of kids whose mothers didn’t also make it? So what lesson do we learn from this kids? Next time my mom asks me why I dropped out of school to do drugs, I’ll just whip out this sheet of friends who all did that too!
2. If you could go all the way to the school to get that list, couldn’t you have talked to the school admins or teachers about why only mothers are invited and not dads? Why this discrimination?! Hint: *Catholic school*
3. Nooyi missed a valuable opportunity to talk about equality with her daughter. I don’t know how old the girl was when this happened, but I’m sure even a 6 or 8 yr old can be taught that everyone should be treated equally (but they aren’t) without going into the history of the women’s rights movement!
4. She may not have been able to show her mother the door (she might have needed the help with children at that time or whatever) but she didn’t have to roll over like that either. I’ve had plenty of arguments with my mother on similar things and now she agrees with most of what I used to say. You cannot change things without dialogue, especially with family.
I just cringed reading through the interview :(
On a side note, this whole parents coming to school paradigm (and kids actually wanting them to) is a pretty Western thing I guess. At least when my sister and I were in school, parents being called to school was a bad thing! My parents came once a year to collect report cards and we were thankful that was it :D
In reply to Shilpa J
Yup, the whole interview was pretty much a clusterf**k. Too many things wrong for me to call out every little thing. I too wondered why only the women were called for “class coffee”!
I am a little amused by the great effort people put in to concoct an over emotional story to justify their point or show their greatness. Meanwhile, Nooyi just vilified her husband, mom and partly her children to prove that she is great despite all the world tying her down. For a packet milk !!! Why ? because ordinary people do not understand heroics without villainy. For every great achiever, we need an under-achiever to compare.
I think leading Pepsico was a great achievement, even if everyone in her family helped her and supported her. This story was not needed.
I totally agree with your point of gender bias. Unless we get off that sob-story of constant suffering of ALL women at the insensitivity of society, we ain’t getting far from gender inequality. I think society is equally cruel to both men and women, in different ways. There are more suicides of men than women in India. You may be cringing at the inequality in success of men & women, but also think about the inequality in the effect of failure between the genders.
In reply to Murali
That’s true. Expectations are there on both genders and both suffer a hella lot at its hands.
hmm its her experience nad i dont want to judge her but maybe she comes form a older generation ( saying that makes me feel younger :-) )
cause i don’t feel a tad bit of guilt working and i never attend the boring coffee morning even when i can I’d rather read a book and anyway our school knows what working means, they are not dumb enough to have events weekly at 9am. if they did I’d find a better more practical school.
her mom needs to be told to be supportive, what kind of parent brushes off such an important achievement, be it a sons or daughters ?? very bad parenting by the mom. i cant beleive a conservative older woman would say such things, they usually are the kind who have given their kids their all. oh well there are all kinds of moms.
I’m nowhere near being a ceo yet when i get a promotion ( teeny tiny one) everyone at home celebrate like i became president. we do that for my spouse too and god help us if the kids get an A in a the term.. we are in major celebration mode.
oh well i salute her for rising above all this in her background, guess i’m not the ambitious kind, I’m happy at my work. content with what i do and have no guilt whatsoever at leaving my kids to their devices .. teaches them independence ..
In reply to mr
I think the mom had this little speech prepared well in advance. You just don’t say stuff like this, especially when your daughter tells you she has great news to announce.
*facepalm*
It is terrible the way our society (including families) treat working – especially achieving – women. They need to be “shown their real place” somehow. Families, schools, workplaces all seem to work under the assumption that men are out there having jobs and making money while women are sitting at home taking care of the home and family. I had written about my feelings about this interview here : http://qr.ae/YcNFR
In reply to Raziman T V
Totally agree. It’s pretty obvious to me that her mother is feeling outraged at her daughter achieving stuff in life and not fulfilling the “proper” role for her.
No one can have it all.
Our society at large finds it acceptable that men don’t have it all but not when women do not have it all – she has to look perfect, be a perfect mom+wife+daughter+bahu etc.
In reply to Boiling
It’s curious that when a woman chooses to stay at home and be a 100% homemaker, no one asks here “Do you have it all?”
In reply to bhagwad
That is easily explained. You see every woman wants to get married and have kids, that’s the number 1 function you have to perform (and supposed to want). So for a homemaker, there is no question of ‘having it all’ because she does! But when you come to a working woman, everyone knows she has to do her work only after fulfilling all family obligations. So obviously, you have to know how she ‘does it all’. I remember my mother saying similar things, “If your family isn’t happy or you can’t manage both, then you have to quit your job!”. You see, you cannot just opt not to have a kid/partner instead :D
In reply to Shilpa J
Lets look at it in a different way. Do most women & men do a job for their self satisfaction or for some simpler purpose like running a family and earning a livelihood.
Without going to anyone’s specific case, most people go to a job to earn to live. Making ends meet, ensuring kids have something to eat at the right time and afford a school to have a chance at a better career is the most important thing for all parents for most part of their working age. Nooyi is a one-off case. Consider a more conventional case both husband and wife have a similar paying job, and if they cannot run their life peacefully as both are extremely busy, who would be more ideal to quit a job? Its a different topic is the wife is a ‘wild-life photographer’ and absolutely loves her job. But for any other normal jobs, would you treat a man the same way, as you would a women who lets go off the job ? Chetan Bhagat is an exception, and he still makes millions.
Not having a kid/partner is as much of an option to a men as to women. For most, job is means to a comfortable life and not the reverse… life as a means to doing a job.
The one and only additional job that I think most women do that men prefer not to is to cook for the family, clean the kids etc. For all other work there is either help or a machine. [Typical middle-class bias]
The one and only additional job that I think most men do that women prefer not to is to take care of financial needs like running for banks, loans, driving the family around, buying tickets, handling carpenters, plumbers, arguing with apartment associations etc., which I think helps them run away from home-chores. [Typical middle-class bias again]
On a purely hour-to-hour basis, women and men possibly end up doing similar amounts of work, differently. They choose their preferences. Put a dozen random men and women in a room, women would gather around to speak about family, kids, schools etc. men would gather around speaking about school fees, traffic etc. I am being severely biased here.
Different preferences doesn’t mean one is superior or one is sacrificng etc.
In reply to Murali
Ofcourse, different preferences do not mean that one is superior to the other – it is all about giving people the chance to express and discuss their preference instead of assuming they prefer something because of their gender.
This includes not assuming that in a group, the women are going to talk about family while men talk about traffic. I think both men and women who read this would be offended that you assume they will always discuss such mundane topics ALL THE TIME.
And finally, yes, men are treated differently when they quit their job vs women who do. But who is responsible for that? – People like you who tend to thrive on assumptions.
In reply to Clueless
Clueless,
“People like me” — Isn’t this is “grouping” of people is what you are against in the first place.
Stats have an interesting feature. What is true for a single-data point may not be true for the population, and what is accepted for a population may not be true for every single data-point. Here in lies the greatest err that people make, including me.
Average yearly rainfall doesn’t mean we expect same rain every day and a 10 cm rain today doesn’t mean x365 cms rain for the whole year.
Traffic is not mundane. It effects us all for at least a couple of hours each day. And family is not mundane too. It is something we all feel strongly about and most parents would think of it as a serious responsibility.
When random little-related people speak at parties or events to let go off the boredom, please check out the topics they discuss. Most of us would discuss such neutral topics, rather intelligently stimulating topics like whether string theory is true or not.
Gender plays a big role in our choices, whether we like it or not. Do you realize that most school teachers and nurses are women. In fact when I say ‘teacher’, most of us would generally imagine a ‘lady’. I had male-teachers during my school and, I know the ratios. There is no law banning men from that? Do same number women & men share the same enthusiasm for armed forces? I am not saying men are ‘brave’ and women are ‘compassionate’. There would definitely be lot of ‘compassionate’ army officers and a lot of ‘brave’ teachers. You just assumed I had that bias.
I am not saying “all” men & women are alike. Some may be. I am saying “most” women may prefer different things compared to “most” men. And it is alright and this diversity is good. In fact, while most men prefer women as a partner, is it strange that most women prefer men !!
In reply to Murali
I personally feel that this skewed “preference” is socially instilled rather than an inherent part of biology. It’s we who make women tilt towards certain types of professions and have certain attitudes, and at the same time, keep men away from them.
In reply to bhagwad
Bhagwad,
Not to take away from your original post, which I totally agree on.
I am not sure what is a result nature & what is a result nurture in this debate. But our inherent preferences, both personal and social are a result of thousands of years of evolution (and of course sometimes really bad laws & practices) and not necessarily only to suit the job market of 21st century.
On the contrary, the job market, I think, would change to accommodate people’s preferences so as to find the optimal way of doing business. Reduction in child-labor is more a result of better standards of living of parents, rather than abolition laws.
A free economy & society will eventually make men & women more equal, but we still need not all be interested in the same things. If men/women don’t prefer doing some job, there will be alternate ways or incentives to interest them if it makes economic sense. Safe gender-sensitive workplaces today are an answer to the demand of interesting the better talented woman rather than adjusting with a less-talented man for the job. But would both genders prefer to do all jobs equally enthusiastically is still a question, unless the job changes its nature & demands.
As someone else also put in this forum. Almost… “Nobody has it all”, and it is a bit unfair to paint one gender as insensitive and selfish and the other as sacrificial and compassionate.
In reply to Murali
I like your analysis Murali. Really do. Finance drives all kinds of decisions for the vast majority of us. If the man of the house earns more and one person has to quit a job, the woman will. And vice versa. The reason there are less men quitting is because right from day of marriage, even before kids, he was probably earning more money. Nooyi makes more money than her husband so I am sure he picked up more of the slack. Her mother’s idiotic comments notwithstanding. (In fact I am sure what Nooyi said, her mom said, is a little embellished to make it a good story and a little less true)
Bhagwad, thanks for this post. Indeed no can have it all, especially the middle class working families.
Bang on..
this is what I felt too…
If my mother said what her mother said to her, the next day would have been declared No-milk Day for the household. Ha.