Lately I’ve been involved in some curious discussions with various people over incest laws. I feel such laws are not necessary if we’re talking about sex between consenting adults. What happens in a private bedroom has nothing to do with the government. In fact, it’s one of those examples of the law getting in over its head – simply out of their jurisdiction. Like making suicide illegal. Adults who want to have sex with each other will damn well have it regardless of the law. These are instances where the famous saying from Oliver Twist “The law is an ass” are applicable.
One line of argument goes that without such laws against incest, everyone will start having sex with their parents and siblings. Such reasoning is also used for homosexuality where people believe that legalizing gay marriage will be the end of traditional marriage and that we’re all secretly longing to boink someone of our own gender. And of course that will be the end of the human race as we know it!
The truth is that the overwhelming majority of us dislike the idea of sexual relations with our close family members. And it’s not because of the law. We’re not even aware of laws against incest till much later. Either due to the Westermarck effect or social taboos or whatever, we generally don’t feel like making out with our brothers or sisters with or without the law. Proponents of incest laws claim that children born out of incest have a higher risk of genetic defects. This is true. But there are two objections to this line of reasoning.
First, incest by itself merely refers to the sexual act. Most acts of sex don’t lead to kids. It’s more reasonable to have a law saying that all sexual relations between siblings etc need to utilize a contraceptive. Sure, it won’t be 100% effective but given the low rate of incest in the first place, this probability becomes vanishingly small. Not worth having a broad law for.
Second, the problem of prohibiting sex just because there’s a chance of genetically problematic kids is dangerous. There are any number of genetic abnormalities like Down’s syndrome for example that are passed down from parent to child. Do we ban all people with Down’s syndrome from having sex? Or having kids? Hell, there’s evidence that having kids when you’re over 40 significantly increases the chances of genetic abnormalities in children. So we ban sex for everyone aged over 40? Or outlaw having children? How about we issue breeding licenses?
Bottom line – Incest laws need to go. By itself which adult has sex with whom is none of the government’s business. Sex harms no one. There’s a stronger case to be made for having children, but these are problematic also. Most people simply dislike incest because of tradition or whatever and this is perfectly fine. No one is forcing them to have sex with anyone they don’t want. The problem comes when they try and dictate to other people what they should do.
and “if it is legal, people still might not do it?” We discussed suburban regulations between India and the US. in the US, you have to be zoned specifically. India you don’t. You’ve seen the results yourself.
Now lets discuss “law.” It is illegal to transgress any law, right? As far as your concerned, all laws are absurd right? Isn’t it absurd for law A to exist? Why not get rid of it?
Why do we even have laws in the first place. Incest laws are laws. Driving laws are law. Incest laws are treated the same as any other law–brought up in front of a court.
WHy even have law in the first place?
In reply to Western Point of View
Not going into this again.
“Sure it happens. But it’s so rare that it’s not worth noticing unlike murder that actually directly and immediately hurts people.”
Hope you wake up from your fantasy world pretty soon !
You manage to point out rare cases of tribes practicing public sex, but you won’t accept the common practice of incest. Funny !
Just take a look again at the link regarding shocking sexual practices around the world. Did you actually read it ? If yes, then did you find incest in that list of shocking, let alone rare list ? No you didn’t. Proves my point that incest isn’t rare. Maybe it’s rare only to those who wish to force ignorance on themselves.
As for your example of some African tribes having sex in front of others, there are examples of tribes which commonly practice incest. One such tribe is the Polahi tribe of Indonesia where incest is actually openly accepted. So there goes your argument of incest being universally taboo.
“You need some kind of data to indicate that incest is unreported.”
You mean to say one needs reported data to indicate something that is unreported ? Really ? But still, if you want to take a look at the available data regarding consensual incest, please care to read the following.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Which_Country_has_the_highest_incest_rate –
“Japan, Malaysia, Thailand, Netherlands, Sweden, Finland | Cultural Incest is high particularly in Japan and Holland. The organization CHRIS in Holland reports one-in-seven people have practiced incest for a prolonged period of time.”
“When you combine poverty with alcoholism, the pervasiveness of both consensual incest and violent based dramatically increases within any given society, culture, and country. In the United States, while incest is not statistically high, certain regions suffer from quadruple the rate of incest; such as many of those from the poverty-alcoholism stricken region of the Appalachian Mountains and the swamps or backwoods of the Deep South. It is so commonly known, that this has become part of American cultural fabric often referenced in literature, theater, movies, art, and music. following are a list of countries which suffers from the highest poverty-alcoholism rate in the world;”
http://www.vday.org/take-action/violence-against-women/incest –
“According to a 1989 study, one out of every eight women in New Zealand has had an experience of incest ”
“In Malaysia, there are approximately 300 cases of incest reported each year. (Women’s Center for Change Panang).”
I have specifically added the parts of the text as a summary lest you would complain and say that no, you wouldn’t read it. Though you yourself provide links as references and expect others to read them.
“Also if you haven’t noticed, my opposition to incest laws is based on the fact that it harms no one and that consenting adults should be able to do anything they want. Did you read my post?”
Well, did you read your own post ? Maybe you didn’t so I’ll just point it out to you –
(3rd paragraph; 4th line) : “Either due to the Westermarck effect or social taboos or whatever, we generally don’t feel like making out with our brothers or sisters with or without the law.”
Now why are you gtting edgy if I’m contesting this statement of yours ? But if you choose to run away from the discussion by ending it unilaterally and imagining that you have proved your point, then I’ll not stop you from doing so. As they say, ignorance is bliss. Stay blissed !
In reply to Ayush
Common? Where are you getting your data from? And the fact that incest isn’t listed on that page proves my point and not yours. Your link doesn’t give statistics for consensual incest. We’re not interested in forced sex or sex with minors. We’re talking adults consensual incest.
The fact that you can’t appreciate the difference between consensual incest and violence against women and/or sex with minors means we’re not on the same page at all.
And finally, I really don’t care if you contest my statements or not. For me to allow your comments on my blog, I need you to address the topic of the post. Otherwise, you’re most welcome to start your own blog and say whatever you want over there.
Now these incest laws are charging our children 11 with aggravated incest for touching a sibling one time on the outside of the genitals Incest really?? This is a felony and a lifetime punishment which is nothing more than child curiosity. Laws have gone mad and take way more control from the people in which they are set to protect!!