A news story in the TOI about some women getting harassed on a train irritated me, but I can’t say I was shocked. What did shock me and piss me off was one of the comments on the article saying this:
There might be so many other females in that particular train. It is the provocative dressing sense and the profession of these particular girls are making them as soft targets
Their profession was modelling and apparently some feel this gives people a god given right to sexually harass them. I’m not going to harp on about how women have the right to wear whatever they want in a free country etc etc. Instead, I want to focus on the men involved.
The essence of the above comment is this. “Men lose control of their actions when they see pretty women wearing jeans and T-Shirts. Therefore they must not be blamed.”
What …the…F***
As a man, and more importantly as an adult, I hereby declare that I have full control of my body even when a lot of attractive women are around. Therefore, anything I do in that situation is a choice I make. If I choose to behave rudely to them, I fully deserve the consequences of my actions and I can’t plead temporary insanity.
Those who argue that men can’t be blamed for passing lewd comments and behaving in a rowdy manner when women are around would do well to think of dogs. You know how dogs behave when nearby bitches are in heat? They can’t help themselves and go temporarily crazy. That’s how these men behaved. Like dogs. And those claiming that they did nothing wrong are actually saying “Poor animals – what were they to do? How can you blame them for behaving like that?”
If that’s so, then those who behave like animals need to be treated like animals who make a nuisance of themselves. Lock them up or remove their testicles. Humans who don’t behave like humans are no different. Nothing personal here. Poor things after all. They couldn’t help themselves. It’s a cruel world (sob!)
At the very least people should gather around and throw stones at these misbehaving baboons.
Applause! Exactly the same thing is applicable to men who love to pee on any wall they find. If they cant behave with decorum they have no business being called human and civilized. You know why they do this? Because they know they can get away by using such arguments.
How right ur Ritu n I liked the comparison..Men who P on the walls r akin to dogs ,but again my doggie has more decorum…Desperate men get away wth such things bcoz we let thm get away …kudos to ppl like you who voice their opinion !
my doggie has more decorum
Kindly explain this decorum thingy!
what decorum does ur doggie has??
Thanks.
Oh, absolutely. So good to hear a sane sounding male speak up!!!!!!
This is the most absurd excuse a man can give. A LADY HAS THE RIGHT TO DRESS THE WAY SHE WANTS.
No she does’nt as no man also.
I have always held, if Viswamitra’s tapasya was broken, then it was his own inability to control his senses, that he better take responsibility for his actions. The celestial apsara Maneka cannot be blamed.
We expect little hungry children to control their hunger in front of food in plenty. But grown men are somehow not expected to control themselves when women are around. Ironical.
Kudos for the post.
Yep – Indra was at fault for having the intention to break Viswamitra’s tapasya in such a manner, Maneka was at fault for obeying Indra, and Viswamitra was at fault for sucummbing :)
Provocative dressing? Er, well, I think there is no uniform standard of ‘provocative’ dress, at all. Like beauty, “Provocation” is in the eye of the beholder, depending on one’s conditioning.
Some dickheads tend to choose a victim not because she’s particularly attractive or desirable but because she’s vulnerable.
I know of NO evidence that women, such as models, who are selected for their
beauty and who tend to be ‘provocatively’ dressed are more likely to be harassed. Though, I feel sad that some losers still prefer to hold women more responsible than men themselves for the bad acts of men towards women!
Totally – so much depends on conditioning no?
Well said!
Do the same people feel like breaking glass and stealing jewelery from a jewelery shop because they’re “showing” stuff?
A good analogy!
I frankly feel such men are despos…They r mentally sick n shud b locked up in an asylum!
It was great reading the views of a male person on this typical comment people pass on such incidents!!
Oh come now, Bhagwad. You know women who dress ‘proactively’ are just asking for male attention. Besides they were models, that means they’re just asking for it!
Sarcasm aside, I’m glad for once that mens behavior is being addressed. These discussions even within feminist circles aren’t addressed, because part of the problem is the belief that men can’t control themselves and they’re always driven by their penises.
That belief is balony. Everyone can control themselves. There may be situations when it’s borderline, but those are truly extreme cases that are hardly ever found. People have to be responsible for what they do…they can’t blame others.
kudos and applause for saying this aloud. some man had to stand up and say it
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by monika, bhagwad. bhagwad said: The Woman’s Fault for dressing provocatively? http://goo.gl/fb/SONp6 [...]
Applause! Well said!
I wish some of those men who lose control at the sight of pretty women would read this!
If they can read that is! Baboons aren’t noted for their literary habits.
Well said Bhagwad.
And the same men behave perfectly well if they fear they will have to face the consequences of their ‘getting provoked’.
Loved the post.
You are at a serious risk of being labeled a JKG.
Tweeting, sharing on the Buzz etc.
Oh yeah, that’s another thing. Their control suddenly materializes if there’s a huge fellow or a group of men traveling with the women. Shows how harassment is as much a choice as every other action.
As for the JKG, who’s going to do the labeling? :D – pretty much everyone agrees on this issue if the comments are anything to go by!
It is not so much the youngsters who indulge in touching, groping, molesting etc as the married men. The youngsters if attracted to girls would straightaway proposition them or ask for a date and not behave in a lecherous way. But the men, if accompanied by their wives or girlfriends dare not even stare at the girls. They behave like dogs on a leash (but not straining at the leash) which goes to show that ultimately it is the womanpower which can keep a wayward person in check. Streeshakti zindabad !
three cheers .
i applaud your strength and guts to stand and talk soemthing which is anti men especially when you also belong to the same species.
Quite the contrary, I think my post is “pro men” (if anything). By saying that men are not animals who lose control of themselves, I’m pointing out that they have as much dignity as any other human being.
The people who harassed the girls in this case are the ones who are “anti men.”
This is not a gender war Anju. One has to speak what one feels is the truth !
Really appreciate a guy speaking this out. Well as said by Arijit, it all depends on the guys’ outlook. For me, if i see a girl in shorts i’ll be ok with that, but for someone else it will be provocative, absolutely depends on the conditioning and the way the guy is brought up from childhood.
A guy who has studied all his life in a Boy’s School will behave in a different way than a guy who has studied in a Co-Ed School.
Hats off Bhagwad, nice read and really agree with what you have said :)
Thanks Diwakar. No matter how “provocative” someone finds it, they’re still in full control of their senses…
ok.. Dude .. Behaviour .. Psychology .. Behavioural psychology .. What I feel is you are partially right & partially wrong A) There is a term ‘ Dressing to the occassion .. Atm I’m into Shopping for my nephews wedding .. The thought went .. Mehndi followed by cocktail .. Me wears a party shirt with trousers . Son 13 a churidar kurta n stole.. Daughter a ghagra choli n wife a Shiny suit .. Mallu wedding .. All in off whites Kasav .. Reception .. Me suit 13 yr old complan boy formal trousers n party shirt .. Spending 10k for 6 months waste wife a saree n daughter .. Sharara Music event .. We all wear casuals Now can we change .. My daughter wearing Harem pants to Ayyapa temple n Son party shirt me in suit hell Wear a micro mini @ a disc .. Dhakai saree to kalighat & Kanjeevarams to kolkata club .. Try wearing micro mini to Kalighat temple n be sure to be bottom pinched .. Wear a leopard bustier on a delhi redline bus & be mauled with bystanders showing their Pan Parag stained 32 daant .. Dude you are named as Knowledgeable but a mumbai local ain’t The Taj Ballroom or WIFW LIFW OR A ‘gudda’ shocking show .. Ever heard guys pawing @ Rekha or Hema Malini or even Dimple Kapadia .. Why was Bips Basu clawed @ Jaipur then again at Surat .. If you stoke the imaginations of ‘ SICK MINDS’ KEEP BODY GUARDS LIKE Kevin Costner or Ronit Ray .. What I’d do if I was a buxom bebo Model .. I’d quickly wear a kaftan or carry a burqa n travel by 1.40 ki last local .. Btw I have seen pub gals provocatively dressed at midnight from Vashi to Kurla w/o any1 batting eyelids .. in 1997-99 .. Mumbai & India has changed .. Sansani Emotional atyachaar n such uncensored content makes ‘Psychologically sick Sexual perverts to Do .. Normal men never do such things .. If they’ve been there done that .. Such people who commit acts as are of this nature .. either are starved or highly libidous .. The subject to study here is Psychology & not Morality & Abstinence or Self Control … I’m compelled to make a comment here a fact .. You would think that people go to hear Sri Sri at Art of Living events .. Its a well known fact that many MEN do VISIT these discourses to OGLE at AT chiffonned pearled beauties (haven’t ever been to such places .. Don’t need to .. I’m at peace ) Now many women have applauded you and admired you for taking this up .. But probably only Dr Prakash Kothari or a Shrink is entitled to talk on this subject .. As to why men paw claw molest .. Men are by nature monogamous .. They if they can flirt .. Those who say they don’t .. Either lie hide or are incapable .. Or simply cowards .. Gita par haath rakkhkkey kehta HOON .. Sach ke siwa Kuch nahi likha nna these are My views .. I don’t oppose yours a wonderful piece of work Bhagwad .. May the tribe of men like you grow .. And ladies . I work for a bank I sing too at times go directly from job switch the dress in the hotel loo .. Its possible .. If you move around in a T-shirt with a bold slogan ..” DON’T STARE AT MY BOOBS ” Hey , C’mon .. Men won’t sit quiet would they .. Naah nevver ..so proprietory says cover up or change .. You have right to dress in even a bikini .. But .. AT THE RIGHT PLACE Thanks guys for reading my Thesis :))) blog within a blog Bon Nuit
This is not about dressing for the occasion, it is about lack of self control and then blaming the victim for the outrageous behavior. I lived in Delhi from my teen years till my late twenties. I used to use public transportation or University buses. I used to invariably wear salwar Kameez or jeans and T-shirts. The amount of harassment I faced was unbelievable! In a crowded bus,men (ranging from teenage boys, middle aged men to yes even old toothless relics) would either pass some vulgar comment, try to run their hands up and down your body or lean their body against you. At times I could clearly feel them getting exited when the bus was too crowded. It was disgusting and humiliating and sometimes I was left in tears of outrage. My experience was not unique. I had long conversations with my girl friends and later female office colleagues about this behaviour. It use to turn into long sessions about how we had all(no exceptions) faced these situations almost everyday of our lives. The final conclusion of these discussions always was, no matter how old the female was (some stories were about girls as young as 7-8), or how she was dressed, if she was on a bus or walking around in Delhi she would be subjected to harassment (called by the obnoxious word “eve-teasing”).
To be fair, my friends from other states said that this behaviour was unheard of in Calcutta and Madras. I travelled in crowded trains in Bombay for a few days and never faced it. I had more respect for the south where I went on tours a couple of times and was treated much more decently.
I left India in the early 90s and have never ever faced harassment from men however I dressed. This is about culture and lack of boundries. There is something about the North Indian (Punjabi, UP, Haryana) culture which seems to say that it is 0.k. to behave like this.
Reading my post, I realize that I am talking about widespread behaviour almost 20 yrs ago. I have not travelled in a DTC bus since, but I hope things have changed for the better.
I really hope things have changed too – being a man I’ve obviously never had the experiences that you’ve had. But from what I know things have improved and are getting better all the time…
Unfortunately, it’s scary how things haven’t improved. My friend’s recent experience – http://dumroos.blogspot.com/2011/02/what-happens-when-you-turn-back-and.html
Well said, as usual.
SANGAD KA ASAR THE HUMAN MIND IMITATES WHAT THEY SEE LEARN AND SENSE ANDWILLING TO GO ANY LENGTH TO EXPERIENCE IT.IS IS BASICALLY CULTURE MEN WHOARE WEAKENED BECAUSE OF NATURE, UPBRINGING NEIGHBOURHOOD CULTURE BASICALLY WHAT U LEARNT SEE FEEL AND THINK ARE THEREASONS FOR MEN TO BEHAVE INDECENTLY
theres a thing we do to dogs that we want to avoid going into hear that involves a tiny pair of scissors. I agree with you. Whole heartedly. A woman should be able to walk around naked if she wants to and still not get harressed, now that would be a civilized world. Personally I wouldnt mind walking naked but theres only so much the already burdened world can take.
u know something? I am so fucking fed up of us justifying our base animal instincts. I do realize that we are all animals in garb of a social cultural hand me down but when our actions interfers with the rights of another, no matter what the gender, its time for that scissor to come out.
“It is the provocative dressing sense and the profession of these particular girls are making them as soft targets”
I am not sure if you understood what that means, it doesn’t mean it is their fault!!
All that you said is great in theory! Yes, a woman has the right to dress however she wants. Obviously. The man’s actions are his fault, alone. Completely true.
So after she’s harassed you say it was his fault; is saying that going to stop that particular man from harassing other women in future? Is saying that the woman can wear whatever she wants, is wearing less clothing because you have the right to going to reduce your chances of being harassed by that very wrong and very perverted man? Maybe wearing a loose-fitting punjabi dress, for instance, might reduce the chances!
I’m positive that is what ‘making them as soft targets’ actually means!
It’s not the woman’s fault, but she has to bear the consequences every time. Every woman knows that. Is wearing ‘provocative’ clothing just that necessary that you can risk bearing the consequences of a man’s mistakes?! To each his own, man!!
A woman should dress herself according to where she is going! Every woman
knows that men are visual creatures and they do get excited on seeing an attractive woman. In India, a woman should dress sensibly while travelling on a crowded public transport where she is most likely to be targeted by men.
Dogs follow their instincts while men have control over their basic instincts. Men are supposed to control their basic sexual instincts and may be thats the reason why humans wear clothes. NOT ALL MEN CAN CONTROL THEIR BASIC SEXUAL HUNGER and thats the reason why we have LAWS and BROTHELS. Men who act like a dog, publicly or privately, break the law and men who have some control on their sexual behavior go to brothels.
I’m pretty sure we evolved clothes for protection/comfort :) . Every man has control over their sexual instincts. Which is why no goon will ever tease a woman who’s well protected no matter how sexually attractive she is. They only pass comments on women who they think are vulnerable.
As per you a woman will get “eve teased” only if she dresses proactively.
I do agree that wearing revealing clothes will attract attention and might give off wrong signals but a woman can be harassed by a man even if she is “well protected”. Men consider themselves superior and for some of them a woman is just a “sex object”.
In our country, hundreds of women get eve teased everyday, regardless of what they are wearing. This will continue as long as women continue to suffer silently.
I don’t recall ever making the claim that a woman gets eve teased only if she dresses provocatively. Where did you get that from?
then what do you mean by “well protected”?
read this – Which is why no goon will ever tease a woman who’s well protected no matter how sexually attractive she is
I mean that men in India normally use the excuse of women dressing provocatively…which is what my whole post is ranting against in the first place. So even if you grant their premise (which I don’t) it’s not good enough because women who are not vulnerable are never molested.
So, it’s “just an excuse” for harassing women and every woman who dresses proactively is vulnerable.
Any woman who seems vulnerable is liable to be targeted by goons. The thing about dressing provocatively is a red herring meant to derail the argument.
[...] Not all men are out of their control.But unfortunately some of them are. [...]
http://www.drtraycehansen.com/Pages/writings_politics.html
More feminist nonsense demolished – by a woman!
I suspect some of the comments here are written by the same person using different names.
Why do you say that? It’s possible though…some people like to indulge in dirty tricks :)
[...] was a comment on Bhagwad’s post, I have heard this before. What do you [...]
Bhagwad: In a recent post of mine, I spoke about slut-walk and faced so much flak from men who INSISTED that the ‘revealing’ nature of clothes is what makes them targets, rather than the fact that a man watching them has no darn right to touch them! We really need more men like you around, it will make the world a better and safer place to live in.
Can you send me a link to the post? I’d like to see some of these loonies for myself.
[...] The Woman’s Fault for dressing provocatively? – Bhagwad Jal Park [...]
[...] The woman’s fault for dressing provocatively? [...]