Raise a hand if you’ve heard statements like this on blogs, articles and various comment forums:
- India was the greatest power in the world for thousands of years
- Muslim invaders came and destroyed Indian culture
- Indian knowledge was far ahead of its time and was the envy of the world
- India had the greatest philosophers
- India had the wisest kings
- India had the best warriors
- The British stole India’s Kohinoor! etc etc.
You get the idea..
They are made with the utmost passion and are usually followed by a tirade of how India has fallen from greatness, has embraced “western imperialism” and needs to get back to its roots. Modern society is degenerating, homosexuals are roaming freely, and women are “losing their modesty”. Honestly, I’m astounded at how often I hear such nonsense.
Let’s assume it’s all true. Obviously there’s a good amount of idealization, glorification and whitewashing, but I’m going to ignore it for now. Pretend that India was the greatest jewel on the planet for thousands of years, that all the rulers were paragons of virtue, justice and wisdom. Give in to the belief that evil Muslims came and destroyed everything great about this paradise hundreds of years ago and imposed their barbaric rule, culture and laws upon it.
I may be asking for too much I know, but bear with me. Now that we’ve descended into self delusion and absorbed this nauseatingly glorified past, I have just one question.
So…bloody…what??
Indians living today share nothing but a few bits of DNA with our long dead ancestors. We didn’t know them. They certainly didn’t know us. We have no connection to them. But still we want to somehow claim greatness based on their (supposedly) lofty stature in the past. In effect, we want to bask in undeserved glory. The reality is that the deeds of those before don’t confer superiority on us today. Those who lived and died hundreds of years ago are strangers to us.
It means nothing. We have no business to feel proud.
I’ll tell you the kind of people who look to the past to find glory and feel better about themselves. Those who have no achievements of their own. People who think themselves so worthless and without anything to brag about that they have to dig up old glories of India – imagined or not – to elevate themselves and compensate for their current failings.
The atrocities committed hundreds or thousands of years ago have no bearing today. Those responsible have long since died and crumbled to dust, beyond the reach of our laws. Even those who suffered have been extinguished. The past is past. Let bygones by bygones.
Advocates of the past justify bringing up these old non-wounds by saying we must “learn from history” and trot out that famous saying “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” This might have been valid if there was a danger today of Muslim hordes overrunning India today. If there was a risk of barbarians on horses frothing at the mouth waiting to convert every Hindu into a Muslim.
But there are no such barbarians today. There is no threat. We have far bigger problems than Islamic terrorism threatening us. Perhaps we’re afraid of tackling them and so find an easy target to blame everything on. It’s the evil Sonia Gandhi and her Christian pals in Rome! It’s the minority appeasing Congress that wants to convert every Hindu into a Muslim and impose Sharia law!
If only things were that simple and the enemy was so clearly outlined. But they’re not. Nothing is simple. We have far deeper and real systemic problems which we need to address. Finding an enemy to swing a sword at is just childish. We desperately need to grow up.
Thanks Bhagwad.
I will follow up both the links you gave.
You have given me plenty of homework.
It’s okay, since I am in bed for the past two weeks resting my knee and am unable to walk around and will be immobilized for some more time.
The ortho has prohibited me from walking around and ordered complete rest as the only cure for a sudden knee joint problem I ran into three weeks ago.
My ipad, the internet and the blogs so many of you make this enforced bed rest bearable.
Regards
GV
In reply to G Vishwanath
Do you maintain your own blog GV? Should find it interesting!
I did not read all the comments posted on your blog, so I may be repating some old points, forgive me if I am. Using your past to support your present is bad, but at the same time ignoring your past is worst than that. B’cus the past (good or bad) we are trying to hide is also the history and U will also agree that you can’t ignore the history. Actually I came across your blog when I googled for ” why indians are so much ignorant of our history” . I found that we Indians are still leaving under the Raj and still can’t think something different than whatever fed by european historian, so we always consider ourselves backwards and give all credit to british for all the progress we have done into last few decades. We consider all our liturature, our culture and our religion is unsuitable for today’s world. But just remember that for last god knows how many years, this culture is here guided by the great perople from the past. You may found some dark spot on this beautiful multicolored and multilayered silk cloth wowen through the centuries and that is bit natural, but is it not great that even going through certain dark periods, we are still progressing, everytime learning something new and omitting which is outdated. I think there is no other culture lasted so long. And I think this one point itself is sufficient to prove that it is great, and if u accept this argument then definately you can’t deny the greatness of our heroes from the past. Everybody has their own idols, from current days or past which gives them inspiration to achive more and excel further in their life. So from where u will get that inspiration if u don’t have ur history(past). So u ca not ignore it.
Next point is, was our past was really so glorious or it was just some fables from children’s book, then I think better to go and study the past without any prejudice. I think you can start from Indian Archaeology site where you will find lots of study material and other links also. Whatever you mention in start of your article about India’s greatness are actually facts and talking about it, studying it and taking inspiration from it is no crime. Some so called secular and liberals are always feel shy to talk about the atrocities done by Muslims and Christen missionary on behalf of religion but just start talking about Hindu, then they are unstoppable. Are they really liberal (kindly include yourself into that catagory) or they are the most frightened lots who don’t have the guts to stand against all wrongs irrespective of the religion. British and other so called progressed nations want apology from Japan about the atricities done by their army in China then what’s wrong for asking the same from British for the blood they sucked from India, what harm to get compensation for all wrong they done to us? What harm to ask for our real position on world cultural map and to ask to correct the history which is so much twisted by all this neo libral that now nobody knows who we are?
Bhagwad, your convictions are sickeningly naive and your argumentation reeks of haughtiness. You are so fucking low that you don’t even qualify for pejoratives like ‘sickular’ or ‘clueless’, reserved usually for your slightly intelligent ilk. On the brighter side, you seem to be fairly good at English. Kudos to you.
Take my unwarranted, unsolicited, uncalled for advice seriously – Just because you “can” doesn’t mean you “should”. In other words, quit blogging.
In reply to Unwarranted
And I shall take your advice and stop this instant :D
I partly agree with you that “we have no business to feel proud.”
I agree with Sasank that “Islam is a violent, hate-filled religion” and that Islam is a threat to people (It is probably more of a threat to me as I’m a former Muslim). However, I don’t know whether Christian doctrine is as violent as Islamic doctrine and whether Christian extremists are as extreme as Islamic extremists because I haven’t read about the two Abrahamic religions in detail.
I’m probably too naive for this discussion.
To counter the argument “I am patriotic and i am proud about India’s past ,so what ? why should’t we feel proud about our civilization which has stood test of time for thousands of years?” – I don’t actually feel there is anything actually wrong with this if we are only using history as a way to better ourselves, using other’s acheivements to motivate oneself. The problem is that generally this pride creates the false idea that Indians are “superior” in some way. Indian civilizations are not the only civilizations that have been around for thousands of years – agriculture is estimated to have begun about 20,000 years ago, so look around and you will see that India is hardly the only place humans have settled since thousands of years ago (Yes, even America has had people living there for thousands of years!). If you look away from the “western” countries for two seconds you will see that every country in the world has a vibrant culture with many acheivements in it’s history, and has been around for just as long as Indian culture, if not longer. (India is unique – just like everyone else, haha). But noooo, the Patriotic Indian just compares India to “western” countries like the USA or Canada or Australia, whose acheivements are more recent (as if this is a bad thing).
The problem is when someone starts to have too much pride in their country, and starts to see other countries as having no/inferior culture. And having pride in someone else’s past acheivements (agree with Bhagwad on this one – completely illogical) naturally leads to feeling hurt/offended by the injustices done long ago by someone else TO someone else. The same logic underlies both.
If you can differentiate between what is actually relevant from the past and what is not, there is no harm in being patriotic, but so often people cannot do this. I cannot count the number of times I have heard or read Indians place blame on people today (e.g. Americans for slavery, British for colonialism) for things that were done by OTHER people in the past. I’m not saying that the effects of their actions aren’t present today but the people who did them are long gone so you cannot logically blame their descendants who had nothing to do with it. And demographically 65% of India’s population is under 35 (born after the 1970’s), so the majority of Indians have had no direct experience with the British OR the Muslim hordes or , yet so many people talk about these things like it happened to them yesterday while shopping for groceries!!
Also, by definition patriotism is the idea of a unified “we” based on geography, so by default anyone who is not included in one group is “them” or “other”. Needless boundaries which cause so many conflicts.
Just my thoughts on why patriotism is not harmless.
P.S Mr. Bean Laden actually made me LOL :)
why shouldn’t one not feel proud of the history…it’s not like something we Indians are making up,we are proud of the past which is concrete…and still standing in front of us.Who can deny the fact that we Indians were the pioneer of one of the greatest civilizations in the world…every progressive Indian is obsessed with the past, not because we try to boast about how great we were but to remember that what we are capable of doing…we are obsessed because we want to learn from those achievements of the past.
History is just not a compilation of some facts or rumors,its an original manuscript that we ought to pass to the next generation…everyone should be proud of the past..be it appreciating or atrocious,it must be redeemed.
And moreover history always repeats…the glorious past has to come back..will come back,it’s just majority of the population is becoming member of a herd that has no respect for the past…and no promising future,just a drag present satisfied with “I,me and myself”.
In reply to Anjali Singh
When you say “We did something”, who is “we”? Those people neither knew you nor cared about you. You share nothing but their DNA – they were strangers.
How can you feel proud of something which you didn’t do?
In reply to bhagwad
I am not trying to take any credits for the stuffs i have not done…but I want to feel proud of the stuffs that has happened in past in my own country and other electorates all over the world too…if someone is appreciating the Taj Mahal..I definitely feel proud,despite of zero participation in its construction.
If someone from the west is proud that they have a modern culture and unlike Indians they dont consider sex a taboo…I am bound to tell that person that we (Indians) were probably the pioneer of this open mindess…and I need to remind myself also that how this ignorance of the glories of the past is pushing us(Indians) towards doom..I take India not only as a land made of artificial boundaries…I take it as my home..and every thing that has happened in past which is associated to my home is my past too..I can’t be ashamed of my home,Ican’t be ignorant of my home..past or present I am associated with it.
And about your “those people neither knew you,nor cared about you”…they did care about me,they did care about you otherwise we wouldn’t be a free state by now…!!
In reply to Anjali Singh
I guess that’s the difference between us – for me a country is just an arbitrary and man made boundary. I was born in India by pure chance and I can never feel proud of something I didn’t personally do.
My parents, grandparents and great grandparents were all high achievers. My grandfather was the prime minister of Sikkim when it was still a free country. And guess what…I don’t care! It doesn’t matter to me. I am a separate person and I have no right to feel proud of what anyone else has done. Just because I share some DNA with my ancestors doesn’t give me the right to feel good about what they did.
If I do something great, I would certainly not want my child or grandchildren to feel proud of me. If they do, then they’re losers with no real achievements of their own.
“We have no business to feel proud”. I dont think you have any business in telling how other people should feel.
The fact is india was invaded by muslims, and there were some wise kings etc. And we are all shaped by that culture and tradition. Infact the entire western world traces a lot of their culture to the ancient greeks and they feel proud of it despite them having nothing to do with greeks. But its the ideas that they cherish such as democracy, sports, philosophy, science and arts. Why not the same in India?
In fact Indians are actually far less patriotic than you would otherwise portray. Look at the Chinese…after attempting to completely attempting to destory their traditons during cultural revolution and great leap forward they are extremely nationlistic about their past achievements and even have gone to call some of their inventions “great”, like paper, gunpowder etc. A lot of the websites are in many languages but hardly in any indian languages because indians are usually are passive and accomodating with only English. Incidently, I dont see anything wrong with that and may change in time.
You are only talking about the fringe, who frankly i believe have a right to be vocal because what they argue about does have historical validity, and are quick to tell how people should feel. Few bits of DNA is passed onto everybody in the world, not just to Indians, but if history is being taught in school and when so much of what we do today is actually based on history, culture, methods, I think people should be taught to have a balanced approach. As long as Indians dont harvest a mentality of harmful intent to others then I why should feeling proud or not matter? As an aside, a lot of history we know is actually built on revenges and/or restoring glory based on past patriotism, whether you like it or not. One such example is Alexander, when he conquered eurasia motivated by glory after being taught by Aristotle that persians burnt greece to the ground 200 years earlier.
You can be proud but at the same you have to be critical and just. I mean from this article, you are bashing those patriotics who are indian and therefore somehow you feel your ancestry/DNA gives you the right to do that.
If you feel the right to criticize other indians, then other indians have as just as much right as you to idolize other indians, whether they are dead or not. I hope you note the hyprocrisy here.
All good points! Wanting to be seen as superiour to people from other nationalities is referred to as patriotism but it is actually nothing short of nationalistic chauvinism and is as abhorrent as chauvinism driven by caste, ethnic, gender differences etc.
You are right – none of us had any role whatsoever to play in being born into our backgrounds whatever they may be – Zero, Nada, Zilch, but yet we think it is alright to feel proud about our backgrounds and, even worse, consider those from other backgrounds inferiour to ours.
To quote Bernard Shaw – “Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it”.
However, we do feel a need to find some data to justify our sense of superiority else we will look like idiots. If we don’t find this data in the present, we look for it in the past.. and we push the dates back till we arrive at some data which makes us look better than others perhaps helped by the fact that the data gets more and fuzzy.
This phenomenon is not unique to Indians though. All cultures do this to varying degrees. What makes the Indian situation so pathetic is the fact that we have very little to be proud off from the past century or two so we need to look at really old history to pad up our egos.
In reply to Prem
Very true. Insecurity lies at the heart of all this.
A patriotic obsession with the past is a sign that the person has very little things to be proud of in the present. Personally, I find patriotism absurd, what is to be proud of being born in a country, that you didn’t have a choice of being born into? It is like pride in your family’s inherited wealth (or the lack of it).
In reply to Akhim Lyngdoh
Pretty much agree with this.
I finally found something I was searching for a long time, someone who is living in the present accepting the truth and not boasting about our so called glorious past. Well every empire had its own part of glorious history. But that doesnt mean they will continue to exist in the same condition for ever. Maybe India had the best in everything long before we were invaded by the english, but its true for every other kingdom. If we take modern examples, USA rose to become the number one both in terms of economic and military power only in the last 6 years of the second world war (its military was ranked around 17th best before) and even the egyptians had their part of the glorious past, but why dont they boast about it like we do? Because they know in the present their economy is totally broken. Russia and Germany both were among the strongest countries during the first and second world war. Why dont they tell things like “we were the best few decades back, then the USA cheated its way to position 1”? Its because the truth is economics of a country is very unstable. It can changes every day. Who knows some day India might rise to number one again. But that MAY BE! Just accept the truth my Indian friends, India is no more than a developing country today, and that’s the bitter truth that has to be accepted.
In reply to Naresh
That’s how I feel as well. No point in trying to find a fake sense of self worth in the past. Let’s do what we can in the present reality to make it better instead.