The Khap panchayat’s behavior has moved from the ridiculous to the outrageous. What gives a small vocal minority the right to hold the rest of the country to ransom? MPs like Naveen Jindal and Chautala who even pretend to take these khaps seriously, in my opinion should be described by just one word – spineless. Anyone who isn’t outraged by “honor killings” needs to have their head examined.
The khaps are a joke. I won’t even bother demolishing their arguments. I’ll leave that as a textbook exercise for the IX standard civics class. What really bugs me is that these morons are trying to defy the Constitution of India. In the recent verdict decriminalizing homosexuality, the Delhi HC made it clear that “Constitutional morality trumps public morality.” It means your personal opinions about what’s right and wrong don’t matter if it goes against what’s written in the constitution.
Since our Constitution forms the bedrock of our nation, I propose the only possible solution. Banish the khaps from India. They don’t accept the foundations of our country, so why are they still here? They’re not Indians. Let them seek citizenship in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia or some other non-free nation. This is India. And we don’t like hooligans here.
If the khaps object to inter-gotra marriage, let them utilize some nice peaceful form of protest. Let them write a book about it. Sing a song. Paint something which shows their disapproval. Make speeches condemning it. But if they threaten violence, they need to be put down like rabid dogs. And this is exactly what the court did. It sentenced them to death. All dangerous animals need to be put to death and by resorting to violence, these people have given up their right to be treated like humans.
But better still is if we just dropped them outside the borders of India. After all, they have no right to call themselves Indians after defying the Constitution. A straight helicopter pick and drop off is what’s called for. In and out within the hour. No discussion, no big announcements. The shortest arc connecting the pick up and drop off points needs to be drawn and the khaps should be made to follow it. Now that’s justice!
Belonging to a caste group and abiding by its rules is not illegal under the constitution. Why should the khaps leave India? if they break the rules, they should be punished just like any other citizen. Moreover, just like other citizens whom have paid for their crimes, they have a right to be heard.
Falling in love is not enshrined as a right under the constitution, so I am unclear as to the nature of this "ultimate authority". Nature is not infallible. If two people fall in love not knowing they are blood brother-sister, then what should be the appropriate course of action?
In reply to skg
They should leave the country since they don't believe in Indian culture which is enshrined in the Constitution. Culture like Freedom of speech, and freedom of expression including falling in love.
In case there is a clash between "Old India" culture (consisting of people like the khaps) and "New India" culture (consisting of the Constitution of India), the Constitution will be supreme and New India wins out every time. The Delhi High Court has affirmed this in it's recent judgment in July.
Challenging the basic structure of the Constitution like our Fundamental Rights is treason. If they don't agree with the Constitution, they must be kicked out of the Indian borders.
Falling in love is a right which comes under "Freedom of Expression". The Delhi High Court recently upheld the right of gay people to fall in love and have sex. Surely you agree that if gays have that right, straight people should have it as well!
Personally I don't have a problem if biological brothers and sisters fall in love without knowing who the other is. Perhaps the law will be changed one day. I do think however, that they should be prevented from having kids (if they find out their relationship beforehand) since the chance of recessive genes is around 25% which is unacceptably high.
In reply to bhagwad
/** They should leave the country since they don’t believe in Indian culture which is enshrined in the Constitution. Culture like Freedom of speech, and freedom of expression including falling in love.
**/
This is exactly i am pointing to.. so believe, you have the right to order all the khaps to leave the country, because they dont believe in something you believe.. but the khaps dont have this freedom.. what logic is it?
If honour killing is the problem, then deal this separately.. but why do you force same gotra marriage on the khaps?
First introspect yourself before lynching on others?
In reply to senthil
I am right because the Constitution of India agrees with me. That's the way India works. If the Khaps don't like it let them go to another country where the Constitution agrees with their feudal views.
In reply to bhagwad
What a joke.
what culture are you talking about..the Indian Constitution is not worth more than the paper on which it is written.
Who followes it…huh
Culture what culture….
There are many assumptions in your basic premise, each of which raise a lot more questions than answers
– there is no single definition of Indian culture
– freedom of expression is the right of every indian to to participate in public activities. It has nothing to do with love which is an emotion
– the khaps are against brother-sister marriage, not against love.
– the demarcation between "old" and "new" India appears arbitrary? just because you adopt a piece of paper one fine day, it does not change ground realities next business day
– it is a bit of a stretch to claim that Delhi High Court upheld the right of love. There is a difference between sexual intercourse and love
In reply to skg
" there is no single definition of Indian culture" – I never said there was.
" freedom of expression is the right of every indian to to participate in public activities. It has nothing to do with love which is an emotion" – that's certainly not what it means. Could you show me where this definition of yours is coming from?
the khaps are against brother-sister marriage, not against love. Straw man argument. No one is saying that brother-sister marriage should be endorsed.
the demarcation between “old” and “new” India appears arbitrary? just because you adopt a piece of paper one fine day, it does not change ground realities next business day. Well, first of all, the Constitution isn't just a piece of paper. It's the spirit and essence of India after Independence. Second, I'm not asking the khaps to agree to the Constitution. I'm just asking them to get out of my country if they don't.
it is a bit of a stretch to claim that Delhi High Court upheld the right of love. There is a difference between sexual intercourse and love. The "Right to love" is beyond the jurisdiction of any government. It's like the right to go to the toilet. It doesn't matter if anyone says it's illegal, people are going to go anyway. Also, to follow your logic, you're saying the High Court has decriminalized sex, but still objects to people being in love? If you're not saying that then what exactly are you saying?
Maybe you folks support incest in your family and marry your sisters, Jats don't. Newly made(80% copy pasted from brits) constitution will never trump the age old customs. Indian govt allows mohammedans to have 3 wives and triple talaq which are non Indian customs but cocks a snook at indigenous customs. Even though I am not a Jat but marrying in the same gotra is a no no and is incest.
In reply to Comrade Kung Pao
Horray to Kung Pao
Well said brother well said
"Maybe you folks support incest in your family and marry your sisters"
Strawman argument. You're attacking something that was never said.
For the record, "sister" means having the same parents according to:
This definition
and this definition
and this definition
Need any more proof?
Sister is cousin sisters, folks within same gotra and girls living in the same village. This might not register since you probably never have experienced village life. Quoting english definitions wont help when discussing Indian issues. Look with Indian chashmas and you might get some idea about what you're ranting about is baseless. If you are b*hench*d, not everybody aspires to become like you: an enlightened b*hench*d.
Don't forget, the other side is much worse for which you maintain a stoic silence and not a single article. Mohammmedans have their own medieval and barbaric sharia 'law' which allows them to have 3 wives and triple talaq which are NON Indian customs.
In reply to Comrade Kung Pao
You don't have the right to speak for all Indians.
In Kerala, marrying your first cousin is a local custom. They're Indians no?
Parsis marry their first cousins. Aren't they Indians too?
And finally, when two people fall in love, they don't see each other as brother and sister! So who are you to force them to feel that way?
In reply to bhagwad
But we do…
In reply to The Mindset
Since you’re not the ones falling in love, you have no say in the matter.
bhagwad, exactly my point. Who gave you or the Indian govt the right to preach to the Jat people and force them to change their customs and traditions? Are Jats meddling in Malayali or Parsi affairs? Why the fish should Jats be bothered about what Keralites or Parsis do? They are calling for an amendment to the constitution which tramples their customs but gleefully accepts dirty Non Indian islamic absurdities like 3 wives, sms talak, spend night with father in law etc disguised as customs. This is disgusting where indigenous customs are trampled by coward jokers in the name of being progressive and modern but shamelessly tuck their tails and flee when Talaak or other foreign barbaric activities are mentioned.
In reply to Comrade Kung Pao
"Who gave you or the Indian govt the right to preach to the Jat people and force them to change their customs and traditions?"
Just like you have no right to speak for all Indians, you have no right to speak for all jats. The couples who ran away are also jats no? Why should you speak for them?
They obviously don't agree with the customs – so clearly all jats don't feel this way!
And why are you talking about Islamic customs here? If there's a problem, I'll write a separate blog post on it. This is meant to discuss the honor killings issue.
From the blog,
"What gives a small vocal minority the right to hold the rest of the country to ransom?"
So if you are in a majority, you are always right and trample the freedoms of this "small vocal minority." My grandfather, Comrade Kung Mao's "proletarian dictatorship" also says something similarly idiotic.
In reply to Comrade Kung Pao
I’m sorry – I didn’t understand what you were trying to say.
"And why are you talking about Islamic customs here?"
The point is Khap is equivalent to a Sharia court, if self styled "modern and civilized intellectuals" have no objection to a foreign Sharia concept, why are they objecting to a Khap Panchayat? If sharia lite is legal and valid in India, why not extend the same privilege to other communities. That would be fair and just, innit?
"They obviously don’t agree with the customs – so clearly all jats don’t feel this way!"
This would require a like poll. Have you conducted one? No. But there is a link (comment #8) which says 77% of the people do not want a same gotra marriage. Now this makes these boys and girls a small vocal minority. Hain Na? Now, repeat after me, "What gives a small vocal minority the right to hold the rest of the Haryana State to ransom?" These are your words.
In reply to Comrade Kung Pao
"Now this makes these boys and girls a small vocal minority. Hain Na? Now, repeat after me, “What gives a small vocal minority the right to hold the rest of the Haryana State to ransom?”"
Please show me examples of young couples forcing other people of the community to run away. If you can't give me examples, then they're not holding your to ransom because they're not forcing you to do anything.
If you don't understand this, please look up the meaning of the idiom "holding you to ransom" in a dictionary.
If even one jat doesn't agree with your customs, he/she has the right to do whatever they want. The rest of you, please continue doing whatever it is you do.
Please provide evidence where a Khap panchayat has ordered killing of the couple who marry within the same gotra?
In reply to Comrade Kung Pao
Why don't you just google this?
Anyway, here's one link for you.
And here's a video as a bonus!
In reply to Comrade Kung Pao
From the link you gave,
"Police are deployed in Bajehda village here after a khap panchayat allegedly ordered to kill a couple"
Key word: allegedly.
If you don’t understand this, please look up the meaning of this word “allegedly” in a dictionary. LOL
Same is with the video, no proof, nothing.
In reply to Comrade Kung Pao
I see. So you conveniently hide under that one word eh? You don't read newspapers and are not familiar with their style of reporting. Every newspaper uses that word when talking.
What would convince you? A video of parents and khaps threatening to kill couples?
But wait! that's also there!!
And if you don't want to read the article and watch the video, here is one line:
"We will not compromise on traditions. We will either kill or get killed," says Om Prakash Malik.
It's on video. I suggest you watch it. Or google for more examples. And for god's sake stop trying to deny it's happening.
In reply to bhagwad
Mr. bhagwat.. now i ask.. what is the difference b/w the kahps and you?
And many opposers of the khaps are saying, that khaps be kicked out of india.. who gave you the rights?
As i said earlier, the khaps do not advocate for all hindus.. they want their customs to be preserved, which majority of their people want.. It is you people, who are unleashing intellectual agression against them..
So any one who supports khaps are backward as per your own logic.. doesnt makes sense man..
Btw, the constitution are NOT holy bibles, to be blindly followed.. the constitution is for the people, and NOT people for the constitution.. and you people simply take moral authority over everything..
In reply to senthil
Let the Khap members follow their customs. But they have no right to force any other human being to follow it.
I think you don't understand the nature of the Constitution. The Basic Structure cannot be changed and the Supreme Court has ruled on this several times. Laws can be changed, but not the spirit of the Constitution.
The Constitution is what our country stands for. It is the foundation of our freedom. Unlike a holy book, we wrote it ourselves and decided to follow it when India became Independent. If anyone doesn't agree with it, they are traitors.
In reply to senthil
Sir I am giving you a simple logic..i do respect all traditions, customs and practices in India..But i do not respect people who order honour killings(murder to be bluntly said)…We do not have a right to take anyone’s life. Does our culture order killing of people…? pls answer this question. 2nd point. They obviously have right to maintain their tradition but they have no right to forcefully kill or separate lovers…everyone has their beliefs and opinions. And even if going by stats, don’t the minority have a right. What would you do if someone took away your rights? Answer this. Just to stop rape they are ordering child marriages…if this is their reasoning i don’t see a bright future for India..women are continuously being oppressed. Being a educated citizen of a democratic country I condemn these acts and see these khaps as no less than a terrorist outfit. If you support all this sir then i have only one thing to say, welcome to the dark ages.
ROFLOL, with "so many" incidents happenings, it would have been easy for you to produce one single evidence, no? But what do I get, a pathetic assertion which tells me to believe because you say so. Hahaha. I am asking for one teensy weensy evidence of a Khap panchayat ordering killing of the couple who marry within the same gotra? Newspaper headlines and views of individuals(like Om Prakash Malik) who we are not even certain are members of a Khap do not count as evidence. This is one of the most pathetic yet laughable replies I've ever encountered.
Again, one evidence, please? I give you time till tomorrow else you become a laughing stock.
Ram Ram from Haryana.
In reply to Comrade Kung Pao
I'm going to preserve this conversation and blog about it to showcase people like you! Because otherwise some may not believe that people like you exist.
Prepare to become famous
In reply to bhagwad
B, i'm afraid but your excitement has outrun your meagre intellect. Preserve this conversation in formaline, for all i care, to show your stupidity to the world.
Blogger B writes an article – OK.
Commenter: Where’s your evidence?
Blogger B: Here and here?
Commenter: But these are headlines and content uses the word "allegedly".
Blogger B: Forget the word "allegedly," just believe me.
Commenter(shows the middle finger): Screw You! WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE? Give me evidence, give me facts.
Blogger B: Google it.
LMAO, Accusing people of crimes without a shred of evidence. ROFLOL.