Raise a hand if you’ve heard statements like this on blogs, articles and various comment forums:
- India was the greatest power in the world for thousands of years
- Muslim invaders came and destroyed Indian culture
- Indian knowledge was far ahead of its time and was the envy of the world
- India had the greatest philosophers
- India had the wisest kings
- India had the best warriors
- The British stole India’s Kohinoor! etc etc.
You get the idea..
They are made with the utmost passion and are usually followed by a tirade of how India has fallen from greatness, has embraced “western imperialism” and needs to get back to its roots. Modern society is degenerating, homosexuals are roaming freely, and women are “losing their modesty”. Honestly, I’m astounded at how often I hear such nonsense.
Let’s assume it’s all true. Obviously there’s a good amount of idealization, glorification and whitewashing, but I’m going to ignore it for now. Pretend that India was the greatest jewel on the planet for thousands of years, that all the rulers were paragons of virtue, justice and wisdom. Give in to the belief that evil Muslims came and destroyed everything great about this paradise hundreds of years ago and imposed their barbaric rule, culture and laws upon it.
I may be asking for too much I know, but bear with me. Now that we’ve descended into self delusion and absorbed this nauseatingly glorified past, I have just one question.
So…bloody…what??
Indians living today share nothing but a few bits of DNA with our long dead ancestors. We didn’t know them. They certainly didn’t know us. We have no connection to them. But still we want to somehow claim greatness based on their (supposedly) lofty stature in the past. In effect, we want to bask in undeserved glory. The reality is that the deeds of those before don’t confer superiority on us today. Those who lived and died hundreds of years ago are strangers to us.
It means nothing. We have no business to feel proud.
I’ll tell you the kind of people who look to the past to find glory and feel better about themselves. Those who have no achievements of their own. People who think themselves so worthless and without anything to brag about that they have to dig up old glories of India – imagined or not – to elevate themselves and compensate for their current failings.
The atrocities committed hundreds or thousands of years ago have no bearing today. Those responsible have long since died and crumbled to dust, beyond the reach of our laws. Even those who suffered have been extinguished. The past is past. Let bygones by bygones.
Advocates of the past justify bringing up these old non-wounds by saying we must “learn from history” and trot out that famous saying “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” This might have been valid if there was a danger today of Muslim hordes overrunning India today. If there was a risk of barbarians on horses frothing at the mouth waiting to convert every Hindu into a Muslim.
But there are no such barbarians today. There is no threat. We have far bigger problems than Islamic terrorism threatening us. Perhaps we’re afraid of tackling them and so find an easy target to blame everything on. It’s the evil Sonia Gandhi and her Christian pals in Rome! It’s the minority appeasing Congress that wants to convert every Hindu into a Muslim and impose Sharia law!
If only things were that simple and the enemy was so clearly outlined. But they’re not. Nothing is simple. We have far deeper and real systemic problems which we need to address. Finding an enemy to swing a sword at is just childish. We desperately need to grow up.
Learning: Definition: Learning is acquiring new or modifying existing knowledge, behaviors, skills, values, or preferences and may involve synthesizing different types of information.
The new’ness’ of the knowledge can’t be decided until the ‘existing knowledge’ is known or deciphered or checked against. Maths, sciences etc. do change because of history. The changes are recorded in the history and history is the reason that you can read about it. If they did not record it, you’d have to do all the experiments all over again every time, won’t you? The history books that we use to study science and mathematics are called ‘text books’.
The most widely used method of learning science is checking by experimentation. I’m talking about presenting a theory based on observation then designing an experiment in practice by predicting the result or outcome and checking the truthfulness of the theory based on results. That’s historic by nature. But this is getting too technical! Let’s not split hairs shall we!
Let’s say that in one day you win an oscar, grammy. nobel and booker. Boy, would you be proud the next day! Why? what have you done in that moment in that day???
If you intend to feel proud about your history, you can’t complain about other people adding a few more generations to theirs and feel proud about that!
If you want to renounce history so much, then you can’t feel proud ever again….
You can’t be, for the sake of argument, discard one history and then embrace other. (This incidentally is what any religion teaches. To renounce pride.)
But you don’t start out that way…. you are okay about feeling pride in whatever that ‘you’ have done! That’s hypocrisy, albeit on a micro level!
For all instances and purposes where you mean your article as a negative boost for people to achieve more in their lifetimes; I’m with you! The rest of it is ‘non sense’ as they say! (Pardon my french)
And while we are on the subject, how would you define your ‘interaction’ here? We don’t know each other and all that… You admittedly are somebody who writes for a living for people that you interact with (unless it’s repeat business) in the course of your assignment for the first time.
Interaction can be one way or two ways according to me. Do you read? If you do, do you think that what you read always comes from sources that you’ve interacted with? Do you feel that that’s a requirement for your patronage? I like where you say that you don’t get inspirations from history. You are honest! But I think may be we should.
It’s a well known fact that the gadgets development has almost mimicked the science fiction movies like start trek! There are a few arguments like the movie being the source of design for further researchers and all that! But you see history does make fascinating reading and besides, it’s the best economical experiment ever carried out!! You can’t beat that! (I’m a mechanical engineer)
If you read what I said in this post… You are reading history! Although its very nascent!!
Thanks for the discussion though! I’ve never written so much in one stretch after completing all those journals!
In reply to Sunil
Unless you’re claiming that a person is not the same today as he/she was yesterday, you can legitimately feel proud of a grammy you won yesterday :) . After all, it was you who won it and not someone else no?
But a previous generation’s achievements? That wasn’t me. It wasn’t you either. So what’s there to feel proud of?
I don’t think I’ve ever claimed we must not study history! If that’s what you think I’m saying then let me set the record straight. Studying history is very important. To learn what mistakes we made as humans. For the sake of understanding and interest etc.
But never to feel proud about. That feeling isn’t rational or valid IMHO.
Not every pakistani feels proud of pakistan(people who have read correct history)like Mr Najam Sethi etc,children over there read distorted history,intentionally made so by their dictators to instill hatred against India.
Anyway India and Pakistan were one country for over 5000 years and Hindus and Muslims have lived together from 1st century CE ,we have only been separated for 65 years.
Your whole argument and mindset is hypothetical, your obsessed with idea of ‘yourself’ as an individual and you want to detach yourself from everything that happened in the past,a person simply can’t think about only himself/herself and what he/she has achieved or not achieved and not have any regard for his community’s/civilization’s historical achievements.
everyone can’t have same definition of ‘an Individual’ . I don’t consider my self as something different or separate,i consider myself a part of a greater ‘self’.
Just like there are billions of cells in your body who work in harmony and all of those cells are together called ‘you’ in physical terms and you can’t discriminate different cells, like “my nerve cells in the brain are only responsible for my intelligence and the rest of them are not” .
Imagine what happens if each cell behaves as if it not a part of a body but something on its own. So “I” am a just an infinitely small and insignificant part of a ” larger self “.And i feel proud for the whole community.
What if new cells that are created consider themselves something different and separate from the rest of the body.
Humans have been living in different communities ever since they evolved, no higher organism exists as one community throughout the world,there is a biological reason for a species to live in communities (to maintain genetic diversity and healthy gene pools)
THE HYPOTHETICAL ANSWER FOR YOUR QUESTION IS
we will have to educate every single human being on the planet about genes and DNA in order to explain that there is no difference in capabilities between different communities ,that is over a hundreds years away!!!
I don’t see this argument going anywhere and it is not just about Indians like have said in previously.
Why are you attacking INDIAN”NESS”
you should have put the title like this
” Why are humans of all the countries Obsessed with the Past?”
In reply to Shashank
i am not sure about the biology part!! that’s what some people told me,
i think i agree with
Sunil-“For all instances and purposes where you mean your article as a negative boost for people to achieve more in their lifetimes; I’m with you! The rest of it is ‘non sense’ as they say!”
Again,.the main article is quite vague ,it’s not about “Indian ness” ,it is about “Hindu ness ”
but the title say “patriotic Indians” it is just not matching and Patriotic Indians don’t really separate “Hindus and muslims ” ,they talk about “India” because muslims in great many instances eg :Mughals blended into the society ,Islam came to India in 1 st century CE but India did hold 1/3 to 1/4 th world’s wealth till the Maratha empire.
It is during European rule(particularly british) that India’s economic decline started ,
During the Muslim rule a lot of art and architectural development took place ,which became a part of India ‘s history of art and architecture,
so your article gives a wrong sense of history.
you have just assumed that patriotic Indians are all “Hindu fanatics”.
In reply to Shashank
I feel your cell theory is flawed for a couple of reasons.
1. The cells in our body are unthinking and supremely selfish. They each do their own job for themselves. They neither care about “me” nor are they even aware of my existence. They don’t feel “proud” of me either.
2. What you’re referring to is what we call “the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.” So we’re not just a bunch of chemicals…we’re living creatures. I understand that. But the mere existence of a collection doesn’t imply that the whole is greater. That’s true for some collections such as the chemicals which constitute our body, but need not be true of a collection of trees.
In your example, “society” is merely a collection of individuals with no greater underlying meaning. We’re all just a lot of individuals living together – there’s no “super organism” in existence with separate feelings of its own and a separate will.
In reply to bhagwad
don’t take it literally!!!
It would be so boring to be the same person day in and day out! So hey, I disagree about I being the same person today and yesterday. In the hypothetical case of winning a grammy, you were a music performer yesterday and today you are a grammy winning music performer :)
Jokes apart… The fact that you’ve won your coveted award stems from the fact that you have learned from whatever history of music you were told and taught!! And music like any other branch of knowledge takes a certain amount of pride in its tradition, e.g. Rock musicians pride themselves for being rock musicians and so on. My point is if you have been studying what has been ‘invented’/’discovered’ (For the lack of a better words) before; then you are a part of the history in that sense whether you like it or not! Whether you want to feel proud of what you have been doing and are a part of is your choice!! You feel proud of yourself say for winning a grammy by using / building on notations/chords etc invented/discovered by somebody else and studied by you as history or ‘curriculum’ and not wanting to feel a certain amount of pride about the history strikes me as odd.
The same way we as Indians build and form our opinions from what we have learned or are handed over as part of a tradition. I do take certain amount of pride in being part of a culture that has been preaching secularism and non violence for eons together when all the other religions either originated in violence or defiance and stuck together and grew on the basis of strength/violence rather than choice. We hindus were in fact pioneers of religion and all the other religions stem from the philosophy that India developed and propagated.
But that’s just me!
In reply to Sunil
Fair enough. If you really think that we’re not the same person today that we were yesterday, then we shouldn’t feel proud about winning an Oscar yesterday. I agree with you.
As for doing stuff building upon work done by others, I agree with you there as well. You only have the right to feel proud about your particular contribution. But as you said, if you’re not the same person today as you were yesterday then you shouldn’t feel happy about that either.
So when you say “we Hindus” were pioneers, I don’t understand the “we” part of it. Some Hindus did it a long time ago. They didn’t know us. What right do we have to bask in their glory?
Remember a year or so ago when an Indian born guy won the Nobel prize for something? All our newspapers went wild and praised him etc etc. That gentleman got irritated by all the emails from India which congratulated him as an India. He said being Indian was just an accident of birth. He’s right. Merely sharing DNA doesn’t mean anything.
In ‘our’ case, the ‘we’ part of it is by choice! I’ve come to the conclusion that I’d rather be a hindu than anybody else religion-wise. The connection is ‘choice’!
According to me it doesn’t get better than hinduism. Hinduism boasts of a religion that accepts heterodoxy, it has place in it for believers, non-believers, agnostics and so on…. (I’m a raging atheist) but you get the point. The sad thing is that I need to say that hinduism is a way of life. How many religions are there that can say this. Every other GOD is only concerned about HIS own followers. Hindu GODs are not; they are truly universal. The battles that hindus fought over the time are all to repel or conquer. Simple and plain!
There is no reported bloodshed because we didn’t ‘like’ other religions. When I say sad I mean to imply that we have come to understand that religions could be ‘a thing in one’s consciousness’ rather than a way of life.
Agreeably ‘basking in glory’ can take rather hideous forms and I’m against all of those but at the same time I respect the choice of others. To be either in agreement with them or otherwise is my prerogative!
The case in point is Mr. Venki Ramakrishnan, who according to the link provided by you reads like he has no problems with being an Indian, he has a problems with too many emails!! Indians tend to be over social by nature!! He has problems about ‘not being left alone’! I would too! I’ve just recently come to terms with privacy invasion myself! (got married! ;D) But that’s his miff! I certainly sympathize!
In reply to Sunil
Well, this isn’t (to my knowledge) a discussion about the merits/demerits of Hinduism…
With regard to “connections by choice”, you have every right to feel connected to whomsoever you wish. If you have black hair, you’re well withing your prerogative to feel a bond to every other individual with black hair. Just like it’s my prerogative to call that “connection” irrational. Either you agree with me that it’s irrational or you provide reasons why you feel it’s logical…
I’m not disputing a person’s right to feel connected to their past. I’m merely calling it irrational.
In reply to bhagwad
If it’s a right you can’t debate its rationality! The examples of Hinduism were given as an argument to justify the connection and not as a ‘marketing gimmick’.
I’ll now have to conclude that your argument goes something like this, ‘although studying and learning are processes that require history, you don’t feel it is necessary to be proud of history (before one’s birth), traditions or achievements of people that lived and died before your time and you refuse to be connected to them in that way. You feel that doing so is irrational because they are not your contributions. You think that one should only choose to be proud about one’s own ‘contribution’ to whatever field that the one is working in’
Well, thanks for sharing that! (Took a long while…)
{your last statement is vague again, ‘I’m not disputing a person’s right to feel connected to their past. I’m merely calling it irrational.’
I presume that by past you mean before you were born. otherwise any pride is irrational as I pointed out.} Feeling again is a topic not to be handled with arguments! It’s personal. The reasons or rationale are his own and not open to debate.
Now to talk about a few of the other things that you said, like merely sharing the DNA doesn’t mean anything, well it does! It decides who you are (I mean if you are person A’s son or person B’s just to give you a broad example. Another one is that it decides whether you will have certain diseases or not)
1. The cells in our body are unthinking and supremely selfish. They each do their own job for themselves. They neither care about “me” nor are they even aware of my existence. They don’t feel “proud” of me either.
The problem with this is that when the ‘I’ or the “me” dies the cells die too! They don’t continue to ‘live’ even though that’s in their best interest. Second is that there can’t be ‘selfish’ without ‘thinking’.
What you’re referring to is what we call “the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.” So we’re not just a bunch of chemicals…we’re living creatures. I understand that. But the mere existence of a collection doesn’t imply that the whole is greater. That’s true for some collections such as the chemicals which constitute our body, but need not be true of a collection of trees.
“Greater” is a comparative, greater than what? In terms of what? What do you mean? Do you think that a collection of trees is not superior to a single tree? (I’m supposing that you’d include the tree of the same kind also in the collection and not give an example of the single tree being mango and the collection being that of palms!) Plants sure feel it, just that they don’t/can’t act on it for you to collect the proof! The fact that plants feel emotions is scientifically proven.
In retrospect,
There are 2 ways to counter your position, I give explanation of my position as you suggest or I attack your position.
The first one is not good enough because it will take too much time and the second one I can’t debate because it’s your opinion. You are always left with an escape route called ‘IMHO’.
Pride: Definition: (It’s the first one that comes up in google): “A feeling or deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from one’s own achievements, the achievements of those with whom one is closely associated, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired.”
For my part I’ve explained ‘association’ as ‘connection’. The closeness is for each individual to decide. Let’s not go into ‘from qualities or possessions that are widely admired.’
In the end I’ll have to conclude that I’ll leave this discussion saying it is moot because in my selfish opinion I don’t stand to gain anything.
Now to credits, I liked your article about using moneybookers. I was searching for informational ‘how to’ and it does that nicely. That’s how I landed on this page. I also liked Shashank’s participation, he sounded a little politically inclined but on the right track as far as this discussion is concerned.
In reply to Sunil
I think rights can be analyzed. I have the right to free speech. But if I say something illogical, you have ever right to call it illogical. You’re not trying to stop me saying illogical things. You’re just calling it illogical no?
Cells continue to live for a while after we die. They don’t commit hara kiri. It’s just that they can’t live for long anymore. And you’re right – they’re unthinking. So comparing society to a body isn’t very accurate.
And no, I don’t think plants can feel pain at all. I’d written earlier in fact about plants just being robots.
How did I miss this post!!??! I totally agree with you, and have attempted to discuss this on my blog too. I feel the truth is that today is probably the most glorious time in human history ever – anywhere. For the first time in human history, we have awareness about human rights, we don’t crush people under elephant’s feet,or burn them when their spouses die/or because they are declared ‘witches’ or ‘dayans’; we actually question, condemn and punish violence against innocent living beings; we try to accept that those who are less privileged are also deserving of happiness, opportunities, equal rights; we have laws against selling of humans and some animals; rape is being seen as a serious crime; and disabilities are treated with consideration; we are beginning to understand that children are not their parents’ property… I can go and on. In India today we have a Constitution that attempts to treat each one of us as equals, something never seen or heard before in Indian history. Bias based on caste, community and gender and economic status has never been questioned in our glorious past, the way it is being questioned and rectified today.
In reply to indianhomemaker
Absolutely agree :) . This is probably the best mankind has ever had it in history. And the best part is we know how to make it even better and we’re able to work towards that goal.
Why anyone would want to look to the past for inspiration in this age is beyond me.
In reply to bhagwad
I think because they fail to see how much better than yesterday today is, and they also can’t fail to notice that some others have managed to make their today even better than we have, so instead of feeling inspired (and motivated) they feel bad about themselves.
In reply to bhagwad
Not everything about today is better than yesterday and vice versa.
There are things history we can look for motivation…the lunar landing ,how that was accomplished in such a short period of time.
The industrial revolution increased per capita consumption 10 fold across the world.
And there are so many more things.
How can you say we cannot be inspired by the past?
today we have nuclear bombs ,in the past we didn’t .
The social evils of Hinduism was questioned before but did not get much appeal(Lokayata )
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/history/athiesm.asp
rational thinking was developed(similar to modern one) but didn’t get appeal.
One of the main reasons for Buddhism and Jainism to come was the flaws in Hindu society.
Why can’t we feel inspired by the lokayata and start a modern version of it today?
why is our education system not teaching our people to reject caste system openly and strongly?? you said today is better than yesterday isn’t it ?how is it really is it better?
In reply to Shashank
I agree – the caste system has been entrenched today because of reservations. It’s probably the worst way to eradicate them.
When I said that today is better, I mean humanity as a whole is better in the last 100 years or so than it was thousands of years ago. Nothing specific about India.
We may not need to feel proud, but we do need to learn from history. History in perspective is necessary. What is not needed is the baggage from history. But lets be honest, not the whole of mankind has that much of maturity as to let go of ego attachments to stuff. History is part of an ego attachment and also such a draw because the future is not something we can accurately predict. And if your present is not very pretty or not to your liking, where else to seek refuge than in the past?
In reply to cheesychic30
You’re right about the motivations for hanging on to the past. Do you think a realization of these motivations will by itself change it?
Realisation might minimise the hold history has on people, but in and of itself, it may not change the people concerned. For that to happen, a person has to come to the conclusion that holding on to the past is not serving them or is mitigating either their present or the future. Alternatively, if the person comes upon some way to improve their present it could work, but even so if you just look at personal lives too, the past needs to be picked on, analysed and little and digested before it can be thrown out. So yes one needs to look at the past objectively, select parts of it that could help build a better future and discard the rest. Some may disagree and say the uncomfortable things of the past need to be remembered, I disagree, I think one should remember the lessons, but forget the event as such. But we humans are complex you know, for the past conscious Indians, it seems dealing with Brits today is easier or even gratifying compared to dealing with a Pakistani. Wonder why.
In reply to cheesychic30
True – learning from the past vs holding on to the past are two very different things.
“The atrocities committed hundreds or thousands of years ago have no bearing today. Those responsible have long since died and crumbled to dust, beyond the reach of our laws. Even those who suffered have been extinguished. The past is past. Let bygones by bygones.”
No, the past is not gone. The jihad against India that was started by Muhammad bin Qasim was continued by fanatics like Aurangazeb, who passed the torch on to poisonous separatists like Sir Syed Ahmed Khan and Muhammad Ali Jinnah, and is currently continued by the Indian Mujahideen, Jaish e Muhammad and other terrorist organization. It’s why India continues to suffer from indigenous terrorist groups as well as Pakistan exported terror. It’s why the Pakistan was borne after a Hindu bloodbath. It’s why Boko Haram, Hamas, Hezbollah, Hizbul Mujahideen, al Shabaab, the Moro Islamic Liberation Front, and other fanatics slaughter innocent people every single day of the year. These barbarians do indeed exist and show no signs of going out of existence. This is a grim reality, a reality you continue to dismiss as scaremongering.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
It is because people like you fail to understand history, fail to see that the roots of modern day problems lie in the crude, irrational religious hatred of the past that India (and the rest of the planet) continues to have these problems. These are the modern day hordes of jihad, Bhagwad. This is why a professor in Kerala was sentenced to getting his hand chopped off by an Islamic court in sickular India. Fears about sharia law in India aren’t paranoia, though you can joke about it all you want; it’s a reality, and it is indeed caused by minority appeasement.
http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/jul/07/islamic-court-ordered-chopping-of-profs-palm.htm
It’s also why more than sixty Hindus were murdered in cold blood in Deganga last year; and this was only one attack. Note that the supposedly “unbiased” Indian media didn’t give this anywhere near the amount of coverage that the Gujarat riots got, despite its being carried out with the help of the local MP.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Deganga_riots
This isn’t ancient history; it’s happening here and now, and inspired by the same “bygones” you claim aren’t relevant anymore. And these are only two horrific incidents out of thousands, as thereligionofpeace.com meticulously notes. The fact that you assume this blind, condescending, smarmy attitude towards people who actually identify real problems in India would be funny if it wasn’t so pathetic. When groups like Lashkar e Taiba claim that they want to turn India into an Islamic state, they aren’t kidding; they’re deadly serious. How many times must you demonstrate this childish ignorance before you get off your high horse? How much fanatic destruction and killing will you ignore because it’s inconvenient, because it doesn’t fit your ridiculous belief that Islamic fanaticism somehow had an expiration date centuries ago?
Simply because the echoes of the screams of the dying have faded, simply because the blood has dried, does not make the horrors of the past disappear, except perhaps in arrogant, contemptuous minds such as yours. Should we ignore the horrors of Nazism, fascism, and communism simply because “those who suffered have been extinguished.”? I suppose you wouldn’t mind if I came over to your house and murdered all of your family members and stole all of your possessions. After all, you me, and everyone else concerned will all “crumble into the dust” anyway. No doubt, you would consider it “nauseating” for your descendants to demand that my descendants give your stuff back, or for the former to be bitter about their current impoverished state, which I caused. No, I’m sure you would insist that bygones should be bygones. Thank goodness the world doesn’t follow your enlightened way of thinking; there’ would be chaos everywhere because no one would care about the past enough to change any kind of problems. India would never have become independent from British rule, because all of the British atrocities would have been in the past, and therefore irrelevant. Feeling humiliation would no doubt be “nonsensical” by your standards, because it all happened to people who are dead, perpetrated by people who are dead. The Jews would never have tried to flee Hitler’s bigoted war machine, because their countless persecutions at the hands of religious fanatics would also have been in the past,, and everyone involved was also dead. What you’re advocating, Bhagwad, is fatalistic acceptance of injustice.
You remind me of Simba in the Lion King movie. When Simba says “I know what I have to do. But going back will mean facing my past. I’ve been running from it for so long”, Rafiki, the wise monkey, hits him over the head with his stick. When Simba asks why, Rafiki replies “It doesn’t matter. It’s in the past.” Simba then says “Yeah, but it still hurts” to which Rafiki replies “Oh yes, the past can hurt. But the from way I see it, you can either run from it, or… learn from it. ” I honestly can’t believe how callous and contemptuous you can be towards suffering and death while sneering at those who are.
“I’ll tell you the kind of people who look to the past to find glory and feel better about themselves. Those who have no achievements of their own. People who think themselves so worthless and without anything to brag about that they have to dig up old glories of India – imagined or not – to elevate themselves and compensate for their current failings.”
I agree that India should scale great heights in the present, but where exactly are modern day Indians supposed to get their inspiration from? Who are supposed to be their role models? Who are supposed to be their heroes? Where are they supposed to get their “Indian”identity from that gives them the motivation to strive and struggle for the sake of their country? How are they supposed to identify threats to their way of life? They have to look to the the past, whether recent or distant! Yes, I’m sure it would be great if people were productive and industrious 24/7, and I’m aware you think that we should start giving up the “silly notion” of countries etc. And while we’re at it, maybe angels will come and give all of the evil people in the world a stern talking to, and there will be an era of peace and prosperity forever.
Nationalism isn’t really something that is going to disappear any time soon, nor are people just going to work together without some kind of nationalistic glue holding them together. It’s truly absurd that you accuse others of being childish (as if you, and you alone, are the sole adult, and if only all the jingoistic, unwashed masses would heed your infinite wisdom India would prosper) while offering such pie in the sky idealism as a viable solution. This hardly warrants your holier than thou attitude, but I’ve become used to your churning out this embarrassingly smug garbage again and again, blithely unaware of its inanity. The only one who needs to grow up and stop spouting crackpot nonsense, Bhagwad, is you.
The reason that Indians (and every other member of an advanced culture) feel proud about their past, even if it had nothing to do with them, is because, despite this, it is an integral part of their identity. The reason India is the way it is today is because of the “wise kings, best warriors, great philosophers” and other people who you claim never existed. The Indian worldview, the Indian way of life, Indian languages, Indian food, clothing, architecture, literature, philosophy and other aspects of Indian culture are the way that they are because of the past. Our past is an inescapable part of our present, and of ourselves, despite your bizarre insistence on severing it. People are proud of these things because it shows what India was able to do in the past, and could do again in the future if the Indian people stopped denying themselves and refused to let people walk all over them and their heritage.
In reply to Sasank
Sasank, your conclusions are entirely incorrect. I’m puzzled as to how you reached them.
Forgetting the past doesn’t mean you stop trying to change the current situation. So if you murdered my family and stole all my possessions, then I will certainly try to stop you and achieve justice in my own lifetime since I’m still alive and you’re still alive. What did you think I meant by “crumbled into dust?” But my children or grandchildren? They have no connection to me. Regardless of your crimes, your descendants are innocent.
It’s a basic principle of law, justice that the son is not responsible for the deeds of the father. I’m shocked that you feel otherwise.
That “Lion King” quote is a horrible one. In the case of physical pain (like the hit on the head) you have no choice but to feel the pain. But when ruminating over wrongs done to strangers hundreds of years ago, you choose to feel pain. Who’s fault is it?
And why do we need heroes and role models? That’s a dangerous thing because heroes tend to be viewed as angels with no flaws. It’s very dangerous. I personally have no heroes or role models for this very reason. People can very well work together without any feelings of “nationalism”. They do so because cooperating is in their best interests. Don’t treat people as if they’re idiots who need irrational feelings to guide them.
You don’t need Indian past specifically to know what you can do. We’re all humans right? We have the same DNA no? Take inspiration from all the world’s countries. What is this stupid focus on India as if Indians were something special? Take focus from humanity in general instead of focusing on specific people because you will never really know the truth about anyone in the past.